Moving an overhead power cable

[Bitstreams]

Our power comes in from a pole at the roadside to one corner of the house. Several wires then snake down to the ground floor and disappear in to the lounge through a bricked-up window. We're planning to re-site the electrics upstairs (directly above the current cupboard) and the re-open the bricked up window.

Does anyone know at what point the wiring becomes our responsibility, so that we can get an electrician to do the work? Is it at the point that the wires reach the house or is it the meter? Does the electricity board have to move the meter?

regards
Simon

 

[Flyfisher]

When we had our electricity supplies relocated and consolidated (we had two meters), it was the meter that was the demarcation point. The electricity network company (EDF in our case) was responsible for everything up to and including the meter and our electrician did everything on the house side of the meter.

Our meters were replaced with a new one in an outbuilding and we had overhead wiring replaced with an underground supply, so it was quite a major change and EDF did all the work up to and including the new meter. If it is just a matter of moving the meter slightly, then it might be possible for your electrician to do it all, I don't really know. But I'm sure a properly qualified electrician would know what they can and can't do; indeed, they would probably be able to liaise with the network company on your behalf and thus manage the whole job.

At least you're not having a meter removed - that seems to really confuse their systems. Since having our work done a couple of years ago we've had a meter reader asking to read the removed meter, Siemens asking to do a safety check on the removed meter and EDF asking to inspect the telegraph poles and overhead wiring that was all removed.

 

[Penners]

Our experience was slightly different from Flyfisher's, and was some years ago, so I don't know how up-to-date this information is.

When we moved our consumer unit (in a previous house) we were told that the electricity supply company was responsible for everything up to and including the master fuse, which precedes the consumer unit on the supply side. Our electrician (namely me - it was legal in those happy, far-off days) had to fit the new CU, leaving its supply tails dangling. The supplier's chap then came along, moved the incoming supply cable and master fuse, and connected the CU tails to the master fuse. He then sealed the master fuse with a wire and seal.

 

[MdB]

My understanding is that the power distribution company are responsable for everything up to the incoming connection to the meter. The power supply company are just responsable for the meter. You are responsable for everything connected internally to the meter.

My experience:

House wiring a complete mess, modern meter but the infeed and master fuse looked like something Igor fitted.

Spoke to the power distribution company and quickly ended up speaking to the local boss. He said it sounded like a mess and came around to look. He agreed that complete removal and replacement was a good idea as was fixing a broken insulator on a bracket fixed to the house. I also wanted the infeed rerouted so that it came through the wall rather than through the (plastic) window frame... He said that this bit was chargeable but due to the other work he would do the lot at no charge as long as I drilled the hole through the wall.

At the same time, I wanted the meter changed so spoke to power supply company for them to do that.

It wasn't quite plain sailing but I got all of the above done on one day and didn't get charged at all.

My neighbours experience:

House wiring a complete mess, old meter and old infeed and master fuse so very similar.

They wanted a new master fuse and meter and also want their infeed cable moved. They spoke to probably the same bloke as I did but somehow managed to get quoted a price of several hundred pounds which sounded extortionate.

I guess the moral is to speak nicely to the person that ends up doing the quote.

 

[Pford75]

We had our supply changed from a TT supply to a single phase supply and at the same time moved from a 60amp to 100amp supply.

We are supplied by overhead cable and EDF did everything up to the meter and also supplied new 'tails' for connection from there into the consumer unit. There was no cost to us.

 

[Penners]

master fuse looked like something Igor fitted.

Do electric storms reduce your power usage?

Useful!

 

[MdB]

master fuse looked like something Igor fitted.

Do electric storms reduce your power usage?

Useful!

No - and there also seems to be more lifeforms running around the place than seems to be strictly necessary. There is one snoring next to me as I type...

 

[Penners]

lifeforms running around the place ..... one snoring next to me as I type

That is no way to speak about Mrs MdB.

 

[Flyfisher]

How presumptious. :wink:


Meanwhile, back on topic (it can happen), I should clarify my "demarcation point" comment regarding the meter and Penners' comment about it being the supply fuse. In our case, our meter (one of them) was relocated from the house to the outbuilding where the re-routed supply was terminated in a new utility box (ugly things, and the reason I wanted it well away from the house).

I'm pretty sure it was EDF that relocated the meter but our electrician was also doing work on the same day, connecting up new feeds to the two consumer units inside the house, so it's possible that he may have moved the meter and connected the tails to the supply fuse. But I've always understood that the meter is off-limits to the consumer as it's not part of the house wiring as such; it belongs to the supplier (or, these days, leased on their behalf from the meter reading company, Siemens in our case).

Anyway, it's probably a bit academic because the relocation of consumer units and meters is no longer a DIY job (or, at least, one that has to be subsequently certified by a 'competent person') so it's almost certain that an electrician will be involved and they should know when, and for what, the electricity supplier should be called in.

Also, to follow up on MdB's point about the vagaries of charging, as per Pford75's experience, EDF did all our work at no cost. But, in hindsight, I think we were very lucky because all the eventual works were discussed with our local "linesman" after he dropped in to check on whether we needed the overhead cables to be shrouded when we had some scaffolding erected. The chap in question was wonderfully helpful and, because he was able to justify the replacement of the overhead cables as a maintenance exercise (they already had a number of joints in them), all the work was carried out at their expense, except for digging the required trench to lay the underground cables, which I arranged myself.

However, I strongly suspect that if I had phoned EDF specifically to arrange the relocating of the supply cabling then they would have regarded it all as a 'customer-requested' project and charged accordingly. I think that is so often the problem when dealing with large companies; the person in the 'customer care' call centre has limited information and is usually bound by strict procedures (not their fault of course) whereas a face-to-face discussion, on the site in question, with someone really knowledgeable can be immensely productive and helpful.

Goodness knows how anyone could find the contact details of the 'linesman' in a particular area though. Perhaps a call to the relevant supply company requesting an inspection of their external wiring to the property because of some concerns about its safety?

 

[MdB]

Just for info - I was told that getting cables shrouded whilst doing work nearby was always free so as to incourage people to ask for it.

 

[Jill]

Simon, I would suggest you find out if your supplier has any intentions of replacing over head cabling in the near future by underground supplies, as this happened in our village last year, fortunately before we had our two supplies alterered into one. If they are you may want to reconsider the location of the meter so that you don't end up with cabling running up the side of the house. I'm sure there is also a maximum distance that your consumer unit can be away from the electric meter.

 

[MdB]

I'm sure there is also a maximum distance that your consumer unit can be away from the electric meter.

5m I very vaguely remember.

 

[Flyfisher]

Just for info - I was told that getting cables shrouded whilst doing work nearby was always free so as to incourage people to ask for it.

Yes, I believe it is free, but when I asked the reply was that they would do the work within 6 weeks, i.e. at their convenience next time they were passing. Or, they could do it within 2 weeks for £250. OK if you're planning well in advance, but not so helpful when you have half-erected scaffolding.

But, when the head of the local 'linesmen' team saw the job on his schedule, he came to see the house within a couple of days as he couldn't understand the request for shrouding because, as he explained, all cables to a house should be armoured anyway and therefore not need shrouding. Sure enough, the cables to our house were armoured, so we didn't need shrouding and the scaffolders were happy to complete the scaffolding on that assurance.

The cables between our two telegraph poles would have required shrouding (if we had been working anywhere near them, which we weren't), as they were bare wires, but the final cable to the house is, apparently, always armoured (or should be) - which makes sense.

Still, it was a very good way to (accidentally) make contact with the right chap on the ground and led to a quite extensive 'clean up' of our external supplies and telegraph poles at no cost.

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm sure there is also a maximum distance that your consumer unit can be away from the electric meter.

5m I very vaguely remember.

I'd have to disagree with that.

Our meter box is installed in an outbuilding about 6m from our house. The feed from the meter connects to two isolation switches (about 1m from the meter box) and there is a cable from each switch to one of the two consumer units inside the house. The furthest CU must be more than 15m from the meter (and much more in terms of the actual cable run). The cables are armoured and very large indeed (at least 20mm2 I believe). We are also in the process of installing a "sub-main" off one of the existing CUs to a third CU for what will become the new kitchen and this will be fed by a 16mm2 armoured cable.

All this work has been done by a professional electrican and is fully certified, so I can only assume it's all right and proper.

Perhaps the requirement is for an isolation switch within 5m of the meter, rather than the CU itself (which, of course, would have a main switch anyway)? But that's only a guess.

 

[MdB]

Perhaps the requirement is for an isolation switch within 5m of the meter, rather than the CU itself (which, of course, would have a main switch anyway)? But that's only a guess.

You could well be right. As you say, you need to get someone in who is properly qualified to make this sort of call.

 

[AMc]

Not that it helps everyone, but your local builders will probably know the contractors directly if they regularly do renovation/new builds. Ask in the local independent builders merchant.

In our case I needed an unrated single phase supply uprated, initially to a 100A single phase, in the end it made no real difference to go to 3 phase so we did that - it cost £3K but was necessary to power the heat pump so I had no choice.
EDF did the work to get the supply from the street to the main fuses - I had to dig in a duct on my property into the house but was forbidden from working on the other side of my wall up to the pavement. They "moled" under the road to the far side where the village supply is.
Siemens (working for Good Energy) connected the master fuses to the new meter and to the new "master switches"/isolators my electrician fitted.
My electrician did the the master switches to the consumer units.

I have two consumer units - one in the cupboard with the meter and the second is 15m away (I know, I paid for the viciously expensive armoured copper cable and digging the trench - twice ) - but the isolators are close to the meter. I expect the isolators are needed to allow safe shut down of the supply if the intermediate cable is damaged AFAIK only EDF (or whoever) are supposed to pull the master fuses to cut the power?

 

[skier-hughes]

We had to pay for a new meter, as the farm supply did farm, our house the farmers converted barn etc.
We were responsible for everything after the meter.
Our meter is about 50m from the CU.

 

[MdB]

We had to pay for a new meter, as the farm supply did farm, our house the farmers converted barn etc.
We were responsible for everything after the meter.
Our meter is about 50m from the CU.

Just out of interest, do you have an isolator next to the meter (or possibly integrated into the meter)?

 

[skier-hughes]

is that an on off switch, then yes.