More Vic windows gone for slaughter

[ilikecobwebs]

I am seething........hopping.....everything you could imagine but isn't printable.......to discover that yet another set of our immediate neighbours has secretively trashed their sturdy wooden Victorian windows in favour of plastic. They now "match" the pvc windows of their semi-detached neighbours. That leaves now just the two properties (another identical pair of Vic semis) still with their wooden originals. I am suspicious, however, that it may have been done in contempt of a recent proposal to obtain conservation status for a large part of the village. What's even sadder is that the guy who owns the house is a skilled woodworking man; could have easily made his own. Says volumes.
What bothers me is whether such changes adversely affect the value of the remaining two houses. We've just been repainting our windows; they're still in good nick after 100+ years and could last much longer; however, I don't doubt that some future family will elect to plasticise them, unless the proposed conservation status reaches as far as our house in the future.
Why do people do it.......I am beginning to lose heart with the aspect of helping keep our own house in decent period order; it seems that folk are just hellbent on destroying anything and everything that has history, quality and aesthetic value, for the sake of pvc convenience and easy lifestyle.
Right...moan over......I'm off to sulk.........

 

[Feltwell]

I know what you mean. The people in the other half of the semi to my house have talked before about junking their (perfectly good & restored about 10 years ago) sashes in favour of UPVC.

I think 2 things put them off - cost, and the fact that it would make the building look odd as I've said there's no way I'm changing mine. We have a conservation area that finishes about 500 yards away.

The 1930's house opposite have just replaced their original timber front door for a composite one. From a distance the door looks OK, but the frame is hideous - it has a 3-4" wide plastic architrave strip around it that goes over the original brickwork, so it looks like the world's thickest door frame.

The fitters do that to save making good around the frame - rip the old wooden one out, doesn't matter if you damage the brick, put the new plastic frame in with 2-part foam and then whack a big plastic strip around everything to hide it all up.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Agree, those pesky window companys should be exterminated by their own plastic fumes.
See a couple of threads from yesterday 's postings .

 

[rogerh]

Someone was offering "Georgian sash windows" on our local Freecycle the other day as they were being replaced with double glazing.

Incidentally, Conservation Area status doesn't stop anyone replacing their windows (unless there's an Article 4 to include them).

Roger

 

[Me!]

Incidentally, Conservation Area status doesn't stop anyone replacing their windows

Is that really true? So, in a conservation area, people are not allowed to prune trees without permission, but they are allowed to change the character forever with uPVC? This country really has gone completely mad! Anyone want to join me in setting up a PPFR, I'm off ......

 

[rogerh]

Conservation Area status:

Demolition
To fully demolish a building, or even parts of it, needs Conservation Area consent.

Minor developments
In a conservation area, you need planning permission for changes to buildings which would normally be permitted. Changes requiring consent include cladding a building, inserting dormer windows, or putting up a satellite dish visible from the street.

Trees
Anyone proposing to cut down, top or lop a tree [above a certain size] in a conservation area, whether or not it is covered by a tree preservation order, has to give notice to the Council. The Council considers the contribution the tree makes to the character of the conservation area and if necessary it will make a tree preservation order to protect it.

--

"Under legislation introduced in 1995, local authorities can make further restrictions on the kind of alterations allowed [an Article 4], depending on how these might affect the key elements of buildings in the conservation area. Examples might be putting up porches, painting a house a different colour, or changing distinctive doors, windows or other architectural details. The local authority has to have good reason for making these restrictions, and must take account of public views before doing so."

 

[ilikecobwebs]

It does seem totally nuts to allow unlisted houses in conservation areas to have prominent windows replaced with an unsympathetic modern material. Everybody knows how white plastic ruins the look of an old house, no matter what century it is. If it's allowed, then it's not true conservation, is it? And replacing windows, or indeed doors for that matter, is certainly not what I would call a minor development. Legislation clearly falls in favour of the plastic brigade. I tackled a similar issue earlier in the year (or last year....can't remember) with Bristol, over the insertion of mismatched upvc windows in a terrace of Georgian buildings. They weren't listed but were in a conservation area. The conservation officer actually viewed the buildings, and admitted the alterations were extremely unfortunate.....but this damned permitted development statement was the over-riding factor, plus a few other issues that I don't recall precisely enough to repeat here.

What has happened in my house-row is that the owners have had plastic copies made of the original windows, so that, superficially, they look like the originals but on closer inspection can be seen clearly to be plastic. The proportions and casements are all the same, but when you look at the outer profile (if that's the right word), the window-pane edges all bulge out, to take the extra glass. On the original windows, the woodwork profile outside is quite flat. I understand the local parish chairperson raised objections to the replacements, but was told by the DC that although it was sympathetic to the objection, it couldn't prevent the alterations under the "permitted development" rule.
Subsequently both my neighbours have set a precedent that will almost guarantee to claim the "lives" of my neighbour's windows, and ours in the future, should we elect to move away.

However, it's ironic that, although the windows have been plasticised, one of the houses has elected to fit a solid wood front door replacement....and all the bargeboards, soffits, and other roof-level woodwork still remain untouched, with peeling paint and no sign of anyone doing anything about it. Beggars understanding, really.

 

[rogerh]

You could lobby your council to introduce an Article 4 direction, as here:

http://www.derby.gov.uk/Environment/Planning/builtheritage/ArticleforDirectionsConservationAreas.htm

Even then it only covers the front elevation, though.

 

[rogerh]

Oh, and the other problem with replacement windows is when they're opened - sash windows often turn out to be hinged.

 

[rogerh]

This is Wealden District Council's:

--

The Direction, which took effect on the 19th May 2006, affects all single family dwelling houses within the Conservation Area. From that date planning permission would be required for any works listed below WHICH FRONT OR FACE A STREET, RIVER, WATERCOURSE OR OPEN SPACE.

* Any enlargements, Improvements or alterations such as extensions, conservatories, replacement doors and windows
* Any alteration to a roof including replacement roof coverings, insertion of rooflights and solar panels
* Building a Porch
* Erecting sheds etc
* Building a swimming pool, a separate structure(e.g. shed, summerhouse etc.) or other means of enclosure.
* Building a hardstanding
* Installing a satellite antenna
* Removing, building and altering chimneys
* Removing or building walls, gates, fences or other means of enclosure
* Exterior painting of either previously unpainted surfaces or resulting in a change of colour

--

 

[another_richard]

I live in a Victorian Terrace down here in Hastings and we are one of about 6 houses out of 100 in the street that still have their wooded sashes.

Some have UPVC in front and old sash at t'back.

Although we do not live in a conservation zone, I am appalled at the loss of original character going into the skips down here.
I have managed to rescue 4 sashes (to replace my rotten ones) in the last month.

I only obtained them as the demons putting in the plastic 'windows' did not want them as they did not contain the original glass. (They sell it to a stained galss company).

 

[Penners]

our immediate neighbours ... secretively trashed their sturdy wooden Victorian windows in favour of plastic.
Why do people do it......

Because some DG salesman tells them that it's the environmentally friendly thing to do. They show the prospective customer dazzling diagrams that purport to illustrate the amount of heat loss through an old sash window, and compare this with the heat loss through their super high-tech DG plastic jobs.

You can't expect the average man on the Clapham omnibus to know the technical ins and outs. He just thinks: "Double-glazing - less heat loss, lower fuel costs, lower carbon footprint. White plastic - no more painting."

It's a bloody shame, but it won't change unless a great deal of money is spent informing the public on the subject. And that's not going to happen.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Conservation Area status:

Demolition
To fully demolish a building, or even parts of it, needs Conservation Area consent.

Post Shimizu, and its redefinition of "demolition", http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199697/ldjudgmt/jd970206/shimiz01.htm only total demolition requires conservation area consent.

The new Heritage Protection Bill will amend that.