More on DG in Listed Properties

[Flyfisher]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/periodproperty/5208846/Period-property-Avoid-heritage-horrors.html

 

[Gervase]

The piece reads like an extended advert for the Listed Property Owners' Club. Frankly one's money would be better spent joining SPAB and getting educated rather than getting even.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, I agree about the 'advertorial' aspect of the article.
I posted the link as another example of the increasing pressure, and approval, to allow installation of DG in period properties.
Let's just hope this pressure doesn't eventually lead to the acceptance of uPVC, although I can just imagine the plastic salesmen arguing that if modern DG is allowed then might as well use the really modern stuff to go with it. Squire.

 

[Gervase]

I suspect the story was fed to the Telegraph by the LPOC, who aren't backward when it comes to pushing forward, and that the devil lies in the detail. Most COs would point people towards PPG15 and the English Heritage secondary doc on dealing with listed buildings, which gives copiously illustrated detail on how to achieve the effects of double glazing without compromising the building. One is left wondering how much has been left unsaid in that article, which strikes me as an exceptionally lazy piece of journalism (and I've been guilty of more than a few myself in times past ).

 

[DaveBrigg]

Lazy journalism indeed. One hopes that if the LPOC is taking in over a million quid a year they paid a decent rate to get the Telegraph to write up their ad. I was put off joining by their offer of a large lead plaque for sale to members, stating that their house was listed, with a note in the small print explaining that LBC may be needed before the monstrosity could be fitted to their property. I did fill in survey for them once, on the promise of some freebies, but the only gift received so far has been spam.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

The piece reads like an extended advert for the Listed Property Owners' Club. Frankly one's money would be better spent joining SPAB and getting educated rather than getting even.

Indeed:

“The rules are there for everyone’s protection, so when you live in a listed home, you cannot get impatient,” says Jon Dunkelman, who owns a 15th-century moat house in the Leicestershire village of Appleby Magna. “For example, our home isn’t just listed, it’s designated a Scheduled Ancient Monument, which means that if we want to make any changes, we have yet another layer of permissions to seek, on top of those from the local authority conservation officer. There’s no point getting cross about it; things take longer when you have a house that’s 600 years old.”

If it's Scheduled as well, that overrides the listing, so the local authority CO has no involvement - it's all down to EH, so still just the one rank of "Heritage Police". Educashun, it's a wonderful thing, and not something LPOC know much about. A look at the list description for that property, however, suggests it isn't scheduled, though it is II*. But the description also says "Interior: exposed stone and timber-framed walls", which sounds less than authentic...

 

[Flyfisher]

It wasn't so much the merits (or not) of the article itself that concerned me, it's the message it puts out to the wider public; i.e. despite all the dire warnings about global warming and having to reduce our energy consumption (space heating being one of the biggest offenders) etc, the 'heritage police' prefer to make it difficult for people to install double-glazing and help 'save the planet'. But, fortunately, the LOPC is there to battle this nonsense and this is just one example of their 'success', so join up now and help the fight for good sense!

Now, I know, and 99.9% of people reading this forum know that the issue is far more complex than this, but the LOPC seems to have done a good job for their cause, even though I agree they probably fed the story to the paper in the first place. But 99.9% of people reading the article probably don't know the details so that's a few hundred for PPUK and 800,000+ for the LOPC. Where's the counter argument from EH? Perhaps they're still smarting from the none-too-complimentary recent TV programme about themselves, again giving the impression of everyone in conservation being too busy inside their ivory tower to look outside.

PR is very little to do with facts and all to do with impression. And we wonder why plastic DG windows are so popular.

 

[Hatster]

I'd quite like double glazed windows myself - I'd like Yorkshire casements (like we should have) with the ultra-thin double glazing rather than the slightly rubbish (but at least wood) single glazed windows with secondary glazing we currently have. The CO is very anti, so I'm not trying, but I still hanker after it. Is this a Bad Thing? Will I be thrown off the forum for having secret DG desires?

 

[Penners]

The piece reads like an extended advert for the Listed Property Owners' Club. Frankly one's money would be better spent joining SPAB and getting educated rather than getting even.

Well said, sir.

 

[Jon Maine]

Perhaps if we all joined the lpoc we could too have double glazing, all for £55 a year.......... :shock:

 

[biffvernon]

Will I be thrown off the forum for having secret DG desires?

I hope not. I make double glazed windows (and single glazed). Sometimes I'm asked to make a new window and I tell the soon to be ex-customer to get their old window repaired. I get quite viscious with people who want to remove historic fabric, but all too often I find old buildings with horrid windows that were put in since the sixties. Replacing them is a mercy, and in many cases I would vote for replacement with double glazing that looks good and contributes positively to the building's development. I would often prefer that approach to the 'restoration' of a bygone window with a reproduction old design that is essentially a fake.

So, if you've got old windows, make the effort to repair and maintain them. But if they are gone, they're gone. Commission new windows, double glazed, that enhance the appearance of the building.

We might need windows like these:

 

[Hatster]

My theory is that I just have to wait a few years and the Cambridgeshire COs will come round to ultra-thin DG. By which point I'll have no money left, as it will all have been frittered away on lime render.

 

[biffvernon]

I don't get too excited about ultra-thin double glazied units. They rely on rare gases such as krypton or xenon that are much more expensive than the argon that works well in a 16mm space. They are never going to be used beyond a few special places.

 

[Penners]

Sometimes I'm asked to make a new window and I tell the soon to be ex-customer to get their old window repaired.

Amongst window manufacturers, I suggest this places you in a minority that I estimate to be... oooh... one?