more cottage 'restoration' questions

[DERYN]

Hi again, a cottage I have been looking at originally had a slate roof. Still does but as with other cottages the slate has been covered over. Lime plaster ? The whole roof needs replacing.

After replacing the slates would the roof then need to be covered with the plaster again ?

The windows were originally wooden frames, which of course have rotted and need replacing.

When replacing the window frames do they have to be made from wood like the originals ?

DERYN

 

[Flyfisher]

I've no idea about the roof but would guess that, yes, the window frames would have to be replaced with wooden ones to the original design. That certainly my experience. In my case (not uncommonly I believe) 'original design' also meant single-glazed windows. The implication of this (apart from the obvious one) is that you'll be unlikely to find a suitable replacement window frames 'off-the-shelf' and will need to have them custom-made. This is not a problem in itself but usually means that such window frames are far more expensive than 'standard' modern window frames. This should be allowed for in your budget.

However, only the relevant CO can really give a definitive answer to such questions.

 

[DERYN]

Interesting. The cottage I have been looking at has different window designs, all in wood. Large single panes, small panes, and a couple of sash windows !

Talking of the roof reminds me of Gryff Rhys Jones' project in Pembrokeshire when a roof went a bit wrong !

DERYN

 

[Flyfisher]

If the current windows were in place BEFORE the property was listed then I don't believe you can be forced to change them and are entitled to repair or replace them with identical designs. However, if they are not 'appropriate' to the original age/architecture of the property then you may be able to replace them with something more architecturally 'sensitive' - but this would have to be discussed and agreed with the CO and LBC would be required because it would be an alteration to an existing listed property.

If the current windows were added AFTER the property was listed (and without LBC) then you could be forced to reinstate the windows to the original design. This, of course, assumes there is sufficient documentary evidence to determine the precise design of the windows at the time of listing. Again, such things are best discussed with the CO.

I know I keep mentioning the CO but they really are key to all such matters. You can get lots of good advice here, from people who have gone through similar things with their own listed properties, to professionals in the field (including a CO or two). But when it comes down to a specific property there are many factors that make it unique and, ultimately, it is only really the responsible CO who will be able to give you specific advice and authoritative guidance.

Regarding the roof and the GRJ programme you mentioned, I didn't see it but it was discussed on here a while ago (try the search facility) and I understand the TV programme didn't tell the whole story.

 

[vicky whitworth]

Hi, from my experience I would respectfully suggest you do some more reading and research about restoring listed buildings before proceeding with the purchase. Not only could you find yourself the owner of a property which you can't change in the way you want to (and quite rightly to if your plans are for plastic double-glazed windows) but as you do find out more about restoring old properties you may wish you had tackled the project in a different way. If you don't understand how old buildings work you may seal it all up with impermeable materials and then it won't breathe and you'll end up with a loft like mine - dripping with condensation. There are loads of good books available (many listed on this site) and SPAB run excellent Homeowner weekend courses. The one I went on was one of the highlights of my life (I know, we don't get much excitement in Devon!).

To illustrate the roof issue. My neighbour lives in a listed cottage with an old thatched roof that had been covered in corraugted (?) iron (crinkly tin) at some point when the roof started to leak. A couple of years ago she had a chimney fire and the fire service ripped the crinkly tin off the roof to put the flames out. She decided she wanted to remove the crinkly tin altogether and re-thatch it. No problem about re-thatching it but she was required to replace the crinkly tin over the top. And mighty fine it looks to.

 

[DERYN]

Hi Vicky, I see your point. BUT, I am thinking the total opposite ! I am a bit of a local historian and the last thing I would do to this cottage is change it in any way.

For me, there are 2 points. Firstly this really is a fantastic old lady of a building. And that is the way I look at 'her'. To me she is a living breathing thing. Still growing in character, still 'shifting' about. Many a time I've gone along and sat on the wall in front of this cottage and you can feel a connection. A connection with the cottage, and a connection with the people that have lived there over the past couple of hundred years. Cold stone and slate, yes. But a big warm heart. Plastic, PVC ?? sacrilege !!!

Secondly, I am just tipping over 50yrs of age now, I've worked the building sites, I've tarmacked the roads, I've taught in schools for 16 years, I'm looking to settle in a cottage in the local area with my wife now while I still have my wits about me. We talk about it constantly and now we have decided to do something about it. Okay, it seems unlikely that it will be this cottage but there are more. It's kinda like 'now or never.' I am a very fast learner and good with my hands and brain. I'm sure I could make a good job at restoring an old cottage.

Hey, I'm glad you posted because it's made me look at the reasons I want to buy that cottage in the first place. And I have a couple of books on order and my back copies of 'Housebuilding' mags for reference. And of course there is always you guys who have 'been there' and 'done that', invaluable.

thanks again,

DERYN

 

[JoceAndChris]

I do hope that "The Old House Handbook", by Roger Hunt and Marianne Suhr, will make it on your list of reading material. It really does cover pretty much everything you're wondering about on both a conservationist and practical level.

I wish I'd read it from cover to cover before even opening up the beguiling pages of rightmove. I'd still have bought BC, but would have had fewer illusions and aesthetic struggles.

I hope your love of local history extends to the outbuildings too? And that you wouldn't, lightly, want to set about converting them to bathrooms and living spaces? I appreciate that making near-derelict houses fit for modern living involves a whole load of compromises - but when I drive past proper old outbuildings here in Lincs I nearly crash the car to get a look. They're wonderful glimpses of the past and should be treasured.

So many times people fall in love with a property and then set about changing the very things they fell in love with. It's a kind of ownership "you're mine" thing, I think. But once it's gone it's gone.

 

[Penners]

such things are best discussed with the CO.

I agree entirely with Flyfisher. Questions like these can really only be answered definitively by your CO.

But generally the principle is fairly straightforward: whatever the configuration of the building at the time of listing, that's what you're likely to be required to conserve or replace like-for-like.