Modifications of listed georgian building

[kisimov]

Hi,

My wife and I have been looking at a flat, with the intention of purchasing it. The flat is on the first floor and part of a listed building. The building itself is Georgian and roughly 200 years old.

There are a few concerns we have and I wonder if anyone can give provide more insight or ideas into those.

1) The living room has a slanting floor. We raised this with the owner, agent and the building's management company. They said it was like this since before the current owner purchased it and the building has been checked and verified by a structural engineer (flat by flat and overall) about 3 years ago and all it is good. Assuming that this is the case (I would have an complete structural survey done if we were to purchase it), would it be an expensive operation to straighten out the floor so we can have wooden floors put in? There are currently carpets in place. I realize the vagueness of the question, but what I am looking for here is pointers as to what usually needs to be done in these cases and what the restrictions are it being a listed property.

2)I have read that people are usually put off by listed properties because of the perceived red tape around them when it comes to repairs and changes, thus driving the property price down. Is this true?

3) Amongst other changes that we are looking to do is replace the bathroom and kitchen, with new ones as the current ones are looking a bit tired and old. We are also looking to put some spotlights in the ceiling, which may require the slight artificial lowering of the ceiling. There are many things written on official websites regarding what you are allowed to change and not, but nothing is definitive and at the end you may have to submit many many forms with the changes, including drawings etc. This seems like something which will definitely raise the costs of any home improvements and it may act as a deterrent to us putting in an offer for the property. Any ides on the process here?

Thanks for any help or ideas.

 

[skier-hughes]

I'm no expert on this, but just to get th ball rolling here are my views;
1. Ask for the structural engineers report and read it carefully and have a copy for your engineer after he has written his report, so it doesn't sway his opinion.
Old floors are normally uneven, without full details it's hard to say, but removing the floor to straighten it could be, I imagine, a massive job, expensive and not in keeping with the building and therefore may not get approval.
What is under the carpet now? Wood? Would this wood not do?

2. Depends on who you speak to, listed properties can often fetch a higher price. I expect it may depend on condition, a listed property in very poor condition would I assume be cheaper due to the large amount of work involved.

3. Is there anyone above you? For the spotlights in the ceiling?
There is some form filling, but it is all intended to help preserve the building for other generations.

I would suggest you find out who your local consevartion officer is, see if he has the time to chat with you and gleen his experience as to what may or may not be allowed in your proposals.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I suggest, rather than getting what will probably be conflicting views based on what happens in a variety of other places, that you contact your local council's Conservation Officer and disuss your questions with him / her.

But to start the ball rolling on the 57 varieties of advice,

1. It's 200 years old and structurally sound, why do you want flat floors? A lot of work for a rather pointless result.

2. Opinion is divided on the matter but in general, well-maintained listed domestic properties tend to sell at higher prices than an unlisted (and altered) equivalent.

3. Spotlights - no; lowering the ceiling - no; renewing kitchen and bathroom - probably yes.

 

[middi]

You can certainly add a " false" floor to the existing with nice new floorboards above if an uneven floor is not to your taste, any CO wouldn't mind you doing this. The CO WILL MIND the idea of cutting the bottom half of the doors so they can be closed !!.

As to renew the bathrooms etc. there should not be a problem provided you keep them contained where they are without restructuring any existing partitions.

There is not a problem buying a listed building, the problems usually happen when a new owner wishes to seriously destroy the original fabric to make changes to suit their taste.

It is always best to consult the CO and seek his/her advise before doing any alterations to a listed building. All the ones I have met were very helpfull.

 

[Stephen]

I concur with the other views generally.

Why do you want wooden floors?

Carpets are better for thermal and sound insulation.

Check the lease a they now often contain clauses prohibiting wooden floors because of the noise problems it creates for the flat below.

 

[middi]

Exellent point regarding the exposed noisy floorboards.

At Hill Hall in Essex, on one of the upper wing it came close to a legal case.

 

[kisimov]

Thanks for all the replies. This board is very helpful.

We are not set on wooden floors, just looking through our options here. I agree with the noise comment. Was thinking if we are going to fix the slanted floor (the slant is right in front of the entrance of the living room and noticiable) may as well put in proper wooden floors. No decision on this one yet.

Also the lowering of the ceilings - not a must, again looking through the options, more of a keeping my eyes open about the possibilities and options before we buy so we know what we are getting ourselves in for.

I guess my way forward is to get the engineer's report about the flat and speak to the local CO.

Thanks for the input here - it is very useful.

 

[biffvernon]

Some folk would pay a great deal extra for slopey floors.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

What's wrong with a slopey floor? Unless you're going to play bowls on it....

I had some whacking great new beams delivered today - they're going to support the floor in my first floor library, which is currently supported by little more than fresh air and something that looks like the tracks from the local limestone quarry (i kid you not).

The temporary props have removed some of the slant and the pronounced bounce from the floor. I hate it - the old floor cups like a teenage skate park, and bounces like a clown on a spacehopper.

Who wants flat, when they can have 400yr old character?

 

[Penners]

Some folk would pay a great deal extra for slopey floors.

Our first period property had decidedly sloping floors upstairs. So much so, that if you entered the bedroom too quickly your momentum virtually carried you down the slope and straight out of the window.

It's called "character" and - as Biff said - can add value to a property.

 

[middi]

It only becomes a problem if you need more than five bricks to level off one end of the bed. :wink:

 

[skier-hughes]

Nah, stick the wife on that side and the mistress on the uphill bit

 

[Nemesis]

Solicitor stars in three in the bed romp... local press will love it...

 

[middi]

The wife, the mistress, sloping floors, dodgy positioned windows and few drinks you won't know if you are coming or going. :wink:

 

[skier-hughes]

Solicitor stars in three in the bed romp... local press will love it...

How did you find out my mistress is a solicitor?

 

[Nemesis]

I have spies.

 

[skier-hughes]

:shock:

 

[Nemesis]

Be afraid.

 

[Penners]

Kisimov - you may have noticed that threads on this forum tend to wander about a bit!

But be patient, you'll usually be able to distil some useful information out of the background noise. :wink:

 

[Penners]

How did you find out my mistress is a solicitor?

Having a mistress who solicits could be a useful additional income stream.