Modernising a grade 2 listed property

[rosst]

Hi

Please could somebody advise as to whether we would require permission to make the following changes to a grade 2 listed period property -

1. installing a boiler, plumbing for heating and fitting radiators
2. re-wiring
3. re-plastering
4. installing a wood-burner
5. knocking down a stud wall (this has been a recent-ish addition to an 18th century property which we suspected would need permission although in reality it is returning the property to its original state by removing)

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Nigel Watts]

You need permssion for anything that effects the character of the building, inside or out. This can be interpreted widely or narrowly, depending on the Council or Conservation Officer's (CO's) view. In principle, I would say that the things you mention are in scope and need permisision.

I suggest you contact your local CO to get an informal opinion about the need for permission and if they say you do need it, what their attitude is likely to be.

 

[Moo]

Yes - definitely get in touch with your Conservation Officer, who will be able to give you definitive answers to all your questions.

And - you will, of course, be re-plastering with lime?

 

[Stephen]

For a lot of questions relating to "do I need permission?" the starting point should be looking at PPG15, which although produced some years ago is still the main government guidance on what might need consent, etc. I shall see if the site can put up a pdf of PPG15.

However, as already mentioned the interpretation of the legislation is varied and it is always necessary to speak to your local CO.

As much of the work seems to be related to installation of services you should also go to the web site of CIBSE (Chartered Institue of Building Services Engineers) as they have a guide to the installation of services in historic buildings (as in fact do SAPB as well).

 

[skier-hughes]

(as in fact do SAPB as well).

SPAB

http://www.spab.co.uk

 

[Gareth Hughes]

That's http://www.spab.org.uk

 

[Lime]

My comments are not meant to be personal.
However it surprises me that anyone can purchase a listed building without realising the implications of owning one.
There are many extra restrictions placed on the owner as to what can and cannot be done to their home.
Basically the restrictions are there to maintain the property in the condition it was in when listed.
That means that all the alterations made upto listing are covered too as well as many "expected" modern conveniences are precluded.
It is in the interest of the house that these restrictions are made and not in the interest of the owner.
The consequence of that is a new owner unaware of the restrictions sees listing as being an impediment or a nuisance with teeth.

What any owner of a listed building should be aware of is that legal liability of all deviations and alterations made without permissions to the property since listing took place, either before they bought it or subsequently, are their responsibility, full stop.

How can solicitors convey listed houses without informing purchasers of these conditions?

 

[rosst]

Thanks everyone - really useful advice. we haven't actually exchanged contracts yet (or even had the survey) - we're only at offer acceptance stage hence me looking in to this now before we complete. i called the local conservation officer and we're arranging a site visit so thanks once again for the good advice.

 

[Moo]

...it surprises me that anyone can purchase a listed building without realising the implications of owning one.

I suspect that rosst, like an awful lot of us when we bought our first listed building, was all too well aware that there are implications and is (like the rest of us were) aware that he/she was about to embark on a steep and exciting learning curve - hence the question. There's a great difference between being aware of something and knowing all the fine detail.

 

[Penners]

we're only at offer acceptance stage hence me looking in to this now before we complete. i called the local conservation officer and we're arranging a site visit

rosst - it would be a good idea for you to do a bit of research on the house before you meet the CO on site. Have a look at the listing information (usually quite sketchy) and find out what made it worthy of listing. This will enable you (a) to ensure that your possible plans for the house are not going to affect its historic character, and (b) demonstrate to the CO that you have the best interests of the property at heart.

And the golden rule of dealing with CO's - ask advice about achieving what you want from the building without affecting its character. Don't present a list of immutable demands.

 

[Flyfisher]

All good advice above. Meeting with the CO prior to purchase is an excellent idea and, given how busy COs typically are, I think it bodes well that yours is able and willing to make time to meet with a prospective purchaser. Remember that the COs responsibility is to the property first but, in my experience, they should be able to help you achieve your aims - assuming you wish to retain the essential character of the property (and if you don't then what's the point in purchasing it?).

You should be able to find a summary of the listing for your property at http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/ and, as Penners pointed out, this should be helpful in understanding any specific features of of the property deemed to be important.

Your point about the stud wall being relatively recent and it's removal therefore returning the property to its original state is, by itself, no justification for its removal. If the wall was present when the property was listed then it is just as protected as any other part of the property, even if it was put up the week before listing. Indeed, the 'original state' of a listed property might be vastly different to its current state. After all, a lot of alterations can be made to a property over, say, 200 years and all that work comprises the history of the property. So stripping back to the 'original state' (even if it were really known) could result in a huge loss of important fabric. Not that some changes can't be made, but these are the sorts of things that will be considered by the CO in the overall context of the property.

As for your proposed changes, I'd be surprised if there were any problems with 1-4 provided the work is done with due care and sensitivity to the structure of the property. This could mean, for example, carefully routing pipework to avoid damaging certain structures rather than simply drilling and hammering through anything in the plumber's way. Asking your COs advice about this would be a good idea. Work with the property, not against it.

As for removing the stud wall, every property and every case is individual but I have obtained permission to remove and move a number of stud walls in our G2* property, so it's certainly not out of the question (not that my example sets any precedents for any other property of course).

Good luck with your CO meeting - do let us know how you get on.