Lowering kitchen floor to create more headroom??

[Dartmoornewbie]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum and new to property (first time buyer!) We are going to put in a offer on a gorgeous period property in a town on Dartmoor, which is in need of some real TLC. To cut a long story short, it actually has very good ceiling height everywhere apart from the kitchen. I am 5'6 but at 6'2 my partner's head is inbetween the beams. Someone mentioned to me about lowering the floors 1/2ft or so to create more headspace. I know most things are achievable with a healthy budget and a good builder, but has anyone here undertaken work like this before? There is a large cellar underneath and the house is built on top of granite; the survey came back saying the cellar was bone dry - pretty remarkable. Taking the floors down a little would take the kitchen slightly below street level. Remarkably, the property is not listed (both houses either side are), so we have the scope to make plenty of changes. Any advice or experiences very much appreciated!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Exciting for you - it can be done, but in my view, ought not to be. Firstly, there might be a really lovely historic floor there that would be wrecked. Secondly, it will cut into your cellar and there may be structural implications not to mention your useful cellar space becoming lower. And thirdly, in my view the original proportions of an antique building ought to be left alone. Your husband will learn to stoop but if this is a real issue then I wouldn't buy it as your proposal devalues the building, in my opinion, and in the view of many period property fans - sorry!
I suggest you have a read of "The Old House Handbook" by Marianne Suhr, you clearly have a leaning towards a lovely old place and this will inform many of your choices. Good luck.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, I suppose most things can be achieved with a healthly budget and a good builder but that doesn't mean they should be. Firstly, if you have a healthy budget then might it not be better spent on a property that better meets your needs rather than beating one that doesn't into submission? Secondly, a regular topic of this forum is the difficulty in finding good builders who really do understand old buildings, so good luck with that.

Another regular topic here is damp and possibly the most common cause is that the interior floor is below the exterior ground level, so explicitly lowering the floor might well cause future problems depending on the construction of the property. The work would certainly need to be very carefully designed and implemented, which is where a builder and architect fully experienced in old buildings (and probably radon protection, given the granite) will be of paramount importance.

 

[88v8]

Hello and welcome.

I am 6'0", the centre beam in the kitchen is 5'6" or so.
PO was 6'2" and a chap who lived here 1972-84 was at least 6'4".
One becomes accustomed.
But it is only the centre beam. If it were all the beams that would be another matter.

Floors below street level are a classic cause of damp. You could be shooting yourself in the foot. It might be easier to find a shorter partner.

Is the floor wood, or solid. How old is the house?

Ivor

 

[Minkeycat]

Hi
I'm afraid I don't have much to add to what others have said other than to say 'Hi'.

I'd be wary of going down below street level even though it's likely that the street level is higher than it used to be. You need to be very careful about the water table outside. Our dining room isn't much lower than the level in our well when it rains which, we suspect, is causing damp in there.
I'm an inch or so taller than our middle beams and, as has been said, you do learn to accommodate it pretty quickly!
I wonder if there's a possibility of moving the kitchen into another room? Could you swap it for a dining room that has better ceiling height but that would otherwise get less use for example? I think if you could, it might be easier to change the layout rather than digging out. I've dug out a couple of cellars about 1/2 foot in my time and it was labour intensive work. Perhaps if your kitchen floor is 'floating' and there's a void underneath it might be possible to lower it but from the sound of it, it's rather solid and being on Dartmoor, it'll be solid! There's a chance that your kitchen floor has been concreted in the past and painted with pitch which isn't uncommon round here unfortunately (we're not too far from Dartmoor). That will have been done by a short person :lol: to solve a damp issue or to replace floorboards that may have rotted (due to a damp issue) so do be careful if you go ahead.

I love Dartmoor and your house sounds very exciting. It'll be a shame to be put off by ceiling height, so I'd say get in there and live with it for a while and a neat solution nobody ever thought of will likely come along naturally in not too long.

Not sure if any of that helps but good luck with it.

All the best

 

[DavidB]

I would want to understand the structure of that floor and why it was made that way and when. For example; does it have original floor joists, can you see how they are attached to the walls from the cellar, have they some kind of secondary floor covering, is the cellar only under the kitchen, is the kitchen a modern extension, are your potential new neighbour's houses the same? Go knock on their door and ask them. They may have some knowledge about the house that is important and they don't mind sharing. Try to work out if it is an original feature or a remedial action previously taken to address a problem and if so - what was that problem? You need to be a bit of a detective. If it was an original feature - then that would change the situation for me and I'd leave it alone.

Secondly, think carefully about the windows and doors. If you lower the floor - then the windows will be relatively higher. One of my neighbour's has windows that look perfectly normal from the outside, but go inside and you find they are very high. This is because the floor is well below street level - they have plans and permissions to address this and remodel the windows, but it will require big compromises with function, aesthetics and fitting in with the rest of the building i.e. whatever they do has the potential to look odd (which might cause a problem when selling the house in the future).

In my opinion, which you can clearly take or leave, is if it has original wooden beams and those beams are the joists for the cellar ceiling then lowering the floor could be a mistake. If however the floor has been altered in some way i.e. poured modern cement on top of historic fabric, then there might be scope to reduce the floor without causing a problem to the building.

If you can't work out what has gone on with the kitchen floor then another option would be to get an independent survey done by someone experienced in period property - you might be surprised at how little investment this will take. But personally I'd go and knock on a neighbour's door this weekend and introduce yourself as a potential new neighbour and say you are interested to know if their kitchen floor is the same. This will cost you nothing and you might learn a lot.

Lastly, I agree with others - you do get used to the beams.

Dave

 

[Zebra]

Another commonly expressed view on this forum, with regard to newly acquired property, is to not be too hasty with regard to alterations. It is easy, in the zeal of one's early days in a house, to rip out this and that, change various things, which not only destroy original fabric, which one might come to regret, but which also one would have got used to in time.
In the early days in my house I wanted to build an extension on the front, replace the floor joists, loads of other major alterations. Luckily I didn't get permission for the extension, and fate intervened on behalf of the joists, and now I'm glad, and love it just the way it is.

 

[Kearn]

Not much to add beyond everyone else here - unwise to drop the floor level if it should be where it is. I'd have to agree with Zebra on the patience front - live through all four seasons and see how the house behaves, and you end up using the space - you'll be very surprised! I'm sure you'll find, like us, all of the initial bold plans change significantly as you learn to love the place and its quirks and some of the things you think will be show stoppers, fade away and focus shifts elsewhere!