London Conversion question

[nosparedosh]

Hello. Wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this please.
We have a Victorian conversion , second floor flat , where,before our time, the attic had ,either side of the stairs, been converted into a study, and a bathroom . Ive found paperwork for the approval of that conversion, but neither the application or approval forms which we have, specify whether joist strengthening was necessary.

As we have no paperwork to say its been seen after the conversion work and the study room is not classed as a bedroom in the application, we think perhaps it hasnt got those steel things put in. Is it only when you want permission for a bedroom that this is required ?

Wed like to put a washing machine to stand beside the dryer we already have in the bathroom,which was all legally and properly wired by a part P electrician -as would be the washer.

Since the conversion has permission for a bathroom , so obviously a bath(which one presumes could be filled fully) , would it be reasonable to think that it would be ok to install a washing machine as well as a dryer , considering the extra weight of a loaded and spinning machine?

Just as background incase relevant,the property has had minor subsidence twice in the past, which has always affected the top flat the most because of natural spiralling effect of subsidence or something.

Thanks for any information.

 

[LadyArowana]

I don't quite understand what the set up is at the moment, do you have a bath or just a shower in the "bathroom"? I can see the logic of your argument if there isn't an actual bath in the bathroom, but if there is already a bath then the washer would be extra unaccounted for weight?

 

[nosparedosh]

Yes we have a bath in there. The question is, Im wondering if its ok weightwise to add a washing machine as we dont know whether when the council granted planning permission for a bathroom and 'study' , it would have required the joists to be strengthened . I suppose Ill have to ring and ask them what the building regs would have required 10 years ago when it was done. Always just a bit afraid when you ask the council to dig for info --- what sort of a hornets nest they might uncover which would have been fine till it was brought to their attention. I think though , it has to be done!

 

[middi]

I don't want to come across sarcastic, but, why don't you just put the washing machine on before or after you use the bath/shower.
One think is certain, if the ceiling has not collapsed when the bath was full it is going to be fine with just a washing machine loaded
I don't think anybody here, or anybody else, is going to commit to the probability that when the bath and the washing machine are full at the same time you are not likely to finish bathing somewhere in a lower floor. Well, not without a structural survey report regarding the structural integrity of the floor to accommodate the extra weight.
I would hazard a guess that it is highly unlikely that the existing floor capable of holding a bath full of water is going to collapse if you add the weight of an empty washing machine.

Middi

 

[nosparedosh]

The flat is being rented out , so you cant be sure that tennants would observe advice to use either 'bath or washer' . I suppose what I really need to know, is when this conversion was done, 18 years ago, 'would building regs have required joist strengthening ? Period. I take your point about 'if it hasnt collapsed yet' , but morally Id like to feel Id taken a look at the situation from all angles , so as to be as convinced as possible that we dont have a 'staw and camel' situation --- and I think for my peace of mind, I would feel happier to know joists had been strengthened - both for the safety of my tennants, and to make sure the extra weight wouldnt place extra stress anywhere on the old building . So , biting the bullet and ringing council planning now to see if any of them can tell me the answer without too much fuss. Thanks all.

 

[LadyArowana]

Worth bearing in mind though that just because plans were made to strengthen the joists and these were lodged with the council it doesn't necessarily mean that the work was done. To be sure you need to talk to a structural engineer, and investigate what the actual situation is. I face something similar with the basement level of our house, two rooms have had an archway created between them and when and how this was done will have to be sorted out one day and remedial work might be needed. On the tour of the SPAB townhouse during open buildings day they gave a fascinating talk about the shifting etc of the building caused by the removal of part of a wall between 2 rooms. The building was far from collapse, however the work had led to sagging in ceilings and other undesirable effects. They were now tackling the work needed to stabilise the structure, which was proving quite difficult.

 

[nosparedosh]

Indeed you are right. Dont you just love all the problems these old buildings throw up...NOT!! Good luck with yours.

 

[Moo]

Just to hitch a lift on this thread, may I run a personal thought past the collective wisdom of the forum?

Our roof was 'done' on the cheap with those horrid concrete tiles (with leaky cement flashing, of course), and the loft is a cats-cradle of struts that support the weight. As a stopgap we got our builders to patch up the leaky flashing, but the plan is to completely redo the roof next year.

That's not going to be cheap, which is why I'd like a second opinion about my Thought:

Although we neither need nor can afford a full-blown loft conversion (master bedroom + en-suite + dormer, which seems to be the norm round here) what if we were, while they're tearing the roof apart, to have the basics put in place - ie the structural steelwork + staircase + a couple of veluxes?

On the plus side it would give us masses of much-needed storage space, and a fairly basic spare bedroom, plus adding value to the house (which is going to provide our kids with the basis of their pensions).
On the minus side, there's the added cost.......

 

[LadyArowana]

I think that's a very sensible plan to "future proof" the house and lay in the basics which can be picked up later for more work should it ever be needed. The sort of investment that will push up the value of the house. Much easier to do it combined with the other work that is a necessity, and at least it will feel like you are getting something for the money rather than just a repair.

 

[Moo]

Bless you, milady. Couldn't have put it better myself.

However, in the interests of solid research, does anyone have any counter-arguments?

 

[plasticpigeon]

Doesn't the structural steelwork + staircase + a couple of veluxes make a loft conversion?

 

[Moo]

Not round here it doesn't!
To qualify, it would have to be fully plumbed for central heating and a posh bathroom, with power, lighting, and cabling for TVs and suchlike. And a massive dormer.

(BTW - prices in our postcode have shot up so far that, had we postponed our move for a year we wouldn't have been able to afford it. A couple of houses just up the road from us (both needing a lot of work done) have just sold for an eye-watering £140,000 more than we paid for ours!)

 

[plasticpigeon]

That sounds sustainable.

 

[88v8]

Just to get back to the original question, it's not only the weight of a washing machine, and modern ones, like modern cars, tend to be overly heavy, it's the dynamic load they create when spinning. An out-of-balance, overloaded machine, with a high spin-speed, can create substantial loads over and above its weight.

Ivor