Locks & Insurance

[wobs]

In looking at a "new" house, we have been looking at insurance. One of the questions that was asked, was regarding the doors. They are wooden doors, with normal locks (I will be working on these soon after moving hopefully). But the thing that jumped out at me was that if I'd have said they were uPVC doors, the insurance would have been lower.

This seems odd, as I got an email (advert) from Mighton selling me cylinder locks for uPVC (and some wood) doors, which fixed a security issue with Euro Profile Cylinder locks. It says that any such locks made before 2011 is suseptable to being easily broken, giving access to the lock mechanism, meaning a burgler can operate the door mechanism even if there are multiple locking points. This affects most such doors in use that are of that design.

I hope to fit regular 5-lever locks on wooden doors. But its a shame that insurance companies still deem wooden doors as less secure compared to plastic doors and frames.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I don't think many rules or decision making processes are based on information or logic unfortunately.

 

[Flyfisher]

Is it really the case that 'plastic' doors and windows are all plastic? I thought they had aluminium frames? I've also seen 'plastic' doors that have very secure locking mechanisms that use multiple locking bolts along the top, bottom and edge of the door, in which case I'd expect them to be more secure than a traditional wooden door with a single lock.

I'm sure the insurance companies don't make this sort of thing up completely and they probably have actual test data as well as statistical data to back it all up.

I entirely agree it's annoying, though it's just one more thing about period property insurance that makes it a lot higher than for 'normal' houses.

 

[wobs]

I thought they had aluminium frames? I've also seen 'plastic' doors that have very secure locking mechanisms that use multiple locking bolts along the top, bottom and edge of the door, in which case I'd expect them to be more secure than a traditional wooden door with a single lock.

As I said, its the lock itself that is the issue. They can break it, access the mechanism, and operate the lock even if its a multi point lock, so it may seem more secure, but it appears to be easier to break into.
http://cusworth.net/2011/07/upvc-door-locks-can-be-bypassed-in-under-20-seconds-22-million-uk-homes-at-risk/

 

[Feltwell]

As I said, its the lock itself that is the issue. They can break it, access the mechanism, and operate the lock even if its a multi point lock, so it may seem more secure, but it appears to be easier to break into.

As a colleague of mine found last week, when he was broken into during the night and had his and his wife's cars stolen whilst they were asleep upstairs. "Lock snapping" is the technique, it's apparently a fast and almost silent way of breaking and extracting the euro cylinder from the lock - which is how nearly all UPVC doors lock.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-17075027

 

[Flyfisher]

Euro lock cylinders can be replaced with stronger types though, e.g:
http://www.handlestore.com/info/Lock-Snapping/
http://www.highsecuritydoorlocks.co.uk/avocet/Avocet-ABS-Official-Supplier.php

Useful advice here for anyone considering new works: http://www.securedbydesign.com/about/index.aspx

 

[Lime]

See how it is done.
http://www.euro-secure.com/locksnapping.asp?gclid=CNKWyaCHr7UCFWbKtAodckQAOg

Doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Flyfisher]

As a colleague of mine found last week, when he was broken into during the night and had his and his wife's cars stolen whilst they were asleep upstairs.

Yes, I've read that this sort of car theft is increasingly popular now that it's pretty much impossible to start a modern car without the original microchipped key.

Another good reason for driving old bangers. :wink:

 

[Nigel Watts]

A wooden front door with a single five lever deadlock is only as strong as the frame where the bolt enters. I would recommend installing a Birmingham or London bar to reinfore the frame or fitting two or more deadlocks with large striker plates such as these:

http://www.banham.co.uk/locks/door-locks/

 

[Lime]

A wooden front door with a single five lever deadlock is only as strong as the frame where the bolt enters.

Indeed it is.
Proper installation of the lock in the door is crucial too.

A point to remember is that most door frames, both old and new IME, are usually installed with little thought given to forced access by an intruder.
Many are held in place solely by a couple of nails into the brickwork mortar combined with a slither of sealant of some sort. (sealant may be cement, plaster, lime mortar, rolled up newspaper etc.)

The door frame must be well fitted.
I always reinforce the door frame (both sides) using long toughened steel screws (approx. 12 per door frame) directly into the brick surround.
Similarly I use long screws on the striker plate that penetrate through the frame into the brick.
If only two hinges exist on the door I install a third hinge (the hinges need to be exactly the same) and fit hinge bolts too.

All my outside doors, both at the front and at the back and side, are secured to the same standard.

 

[chuckey]

i recently changed our Euro cylinder locks to ones that have a turnbuckle on the inside. So I thought I would go go for the higher grade locks(~ £20 instead of £7). while searching for these locks I came across some youtube videos, showing how these can be picked in 50 seconds with the right tools or 10 minutes without (and a first try). Also multiple examples of lock breaking. I certainly think that a proficient locker picker would try some ones else's house before mine as there are no rich pickings to be had here. I think statistically, the most likely house breaker is a junkie/yobbo who can find a garden spade and force a door/window. Though it seems now that car thieves are making a bid to get on the list!
Frank

 

[Nigel Watts]

.

 

[steveb]

I initialy looked at eurolocks as I wanted a degree of airtightness but was turned off them by the "snapping" incidents - they have a solution which is to fit a huge bezel to prevent anyone grabbing the lock with pliers. It's also hard (impossible?) to get them in a "5 lever british standard" form which would make getting insurance on my already difficult-to-insure place even more so, so went for 5 level mortices.

Hid them behind gothicy stylee handles with swingy escutchens and they look fine

Not having Euro locks will deter the "plier monkey" who wants to snap your lock and grab your car keys (seems to be the most common 10 second burglary) but ultimately if someone is determined enough to try to kick the door in or use a crowbar on windows etc then they are going to get in anyway

 

[CliffordPope]

I'm sure the insurance companies don't make this sort of thing up completely and they probably have actual test data as well as statistical data to back it all up.

It isn't based on the testable security of different types of door, but purely on whether houses with traditional doors statistically suffer more or fewer burglaries.

Plastic doors = cheap and nasty = house full of tat not worth nicking.

Traditional door = rich owner = lots of antiques worth breaking in for.