Local Authority involvement in LB damage

[McDad]

Does anyone have any experience of how a local authority should respond to damage to a listed building caused by building works nearby?
The response of ours was an astonishingly quick denial of any responsibility and complete lack of interest by the CO.
We have to puruse a civil case alone.

 

[biffvernon]

Name and shame the Authority.

 

[middi]

If you can prove that any damage occurred is their fault, get your insurance company involved and tell the council that is what you are going to do.

The council is bound to give you the cold shoulder without any reasonable evidence .

 

[Ian Bond]

Good point, Middi. Afer all he's paying the premiums so maybe the insurance company would like to step in and do what they've been paid for.

What a horrible situation, I hope the damage is not too severe - best of luck with it.

 

[Penners]

McDad

Are you saying that it's the local authority who caused the damage, or simply that - because yours is a listed building - they should support you in seeking reparation from a third party who caused the damage?

If it's the former, then yes - I would quickly start making very legal noises at them.

If it's the latter, then I think you're on a stickier wicket with the LA. They may feel that this is a matter between you the damage-causer, regardless of whether the building is listed or not. If you talk really nicely to them, I suppose it's possible that the CO might be prepared to inspect the damage and confirm that it exists, but I shouldn't get your hopes up for much more. They are all so overstretched.

I really feel that your best bet is to enlist the help of your insurers.

Good luck. It must be very hard to suffer this when you're already (presumably) pouring money into a renovation. Let us know how you get on.

 

[McDad]

I'm not sure it's fair to name and shame, or possibly legal for that matter.
The damage wasn't caused directly by the LA, but as a result of driven piling by a contracted company 80 feet away (for anyone who hasn't experienced this it is like someone banging the floor from underneath with a very large sledge-hammer. The whole building shook like a jelly (stove, cooker and heaters rattling like an express train was going past - I honestly thought we were going to lose part of the building. Perhaps I should be pleased that the cottage still stands - it's more robust that I thought!
I feel the LA were negligent in that they give permission for planning, oversee the foundations in terms of are they deep enough, in the right place etc - surely they have a responsibility to ensure that nearby buildings are not affected by works? And of course the work that needs doing to our LB as a result, I'm sure the CO will want input. If I want to change the colour of my paint on the windows I have to get permission. We now have three new cracks down the front wall - where's the interest now from the CO? Zippo.
And by the way why should we lose our no-claims, get hassle with insurers etc - it's not our fault. It could be that the house becomes uninsurable. :evil:

 

[skier-hughes]

I can't see how you can hold the LA liable, unless of course the LA contracted the contractors.
Surely it is whoever employed the contractor who did the work that you need to persue.
Your insurance is there for this sort of thing, use them, it will remove all the hassle from you, not cause more.

Did you make objections to the planning application, if there was one?
If you did, particualrly on the grounds of the damage such work may do to your house then you would be on much firmer ground.

Graham

 

[Ian Bond]

So they're all partly responsible and yet no one is fully accountable. Typical.

I don't see why you should lose out either, as none of this is your fault.

Have you approached your insurer, and checked if your policy provides any legal cover?

If it was me I'd want to get it in writing that my premiums would not be affected, and that all costs would be recovered from whoever did the damage.

I'd be onto my insurers and my solicitor. There is always the danger of paying out for advice, then finding that you cannot prove your claim, or recover costs, but the alternative is paying for the repairs yourself anyway.

Are any other neighbours affected by this - have other buildings been damaged? Get as much evidence as possible to back up your case.


Having said all that - how bad is the actual damage to the property? Can you describe the building to us - is it stone, cob, timber framed? Is it a lime render that's cracked, or brickwork? How wide are the 'new' cracks, and does this imply that there already were cracks in the building? If so, are the new cracks worse?

How much work / money do you think it will take to put the damage right?

In other words, does the cost of remedial works outway the cost of seeking legal redress for the damage, at the risk of being unable to prove your claim?

Have you invited the CO around to look at the damage and advise on how you should go about repairing it?

 

[Paul Hopper]

McDad

I am with Ian and graham on this.. First you must involve your insurers, you almost certainly have a clause in your policy document which requires you to advise them of any change in the property. If this . as I feel you are saying quite firmly. is the case then you have little choice. Find out who is responsible ultimately for the piling works. they will have Public Liability insurance for such things as this.
Employ a good Structural Engineer or Chartered Surveyor to advise and produce a detailed report (it will cost but without it you will have little ammunition to threaten anyone with. Because a local authority planning committee grants pp for work does not imply that they take any responsibility for the execution of the work. the Building Inspectorate will have seen the works and will have visited the site, have you been in touch with them? Its worth a try! in any case the main contractor must carry insurance so with a detailed report and costing (if possible) of the remedial works required, submitted by your solicitor as evidence the insurers will get together possibly with the DV and representatives of the Building Inspectorate.

You may well have to go to court.. do not be afraid.. if it is reasonable that damage could have been foreseen (ie; you are not too far away from the area where the piling has taken place, (ask your surveyor how far removed you can be))

I am sure others on the forum can offer more advice here and fill in any gaps I have left.. it is an involved business but if your are sure that damage has been caused and can offer evidence the court will find for you after all that is what we pay these unearthly premiums for!
good luck, keep us posted, but most of all ..seek professional advice here, a good Solicitor and a good Structural Engineer (Surveyor) with actual evidence (photographs, samples,etc.,) and assessments will give you confidence and may even get you a settlement out of court altogether.. nevertheless if the situation is as dire as you describe.. do not give up and never take no for an answer.. they (whoever "they" are) are responsible must be your mantra,. they must rectify their errors.!!

Go for it, and keep us posted here!

Paul Hopper

 

[McDad]

Thanks for the replies.
There were 14 objections to the planning application, but none were on the basis of foundations as that was not known at the time. The Building Control Officer said that in all his years working for the LA he had only once come across driven piling being needed in a place more than 20 miles from us - we have since found out that another house being built opposite us also had driven piling work last year - it doesn't add up. That work as far as we know did not affect our house, but as we weren't in during the day when the works were happening I have no idea if the house shook then as well and I wasn't looking for damage. Perhaps the latest works have produced a cumulative effect?
No neighbours were notified that driven piling was to take place before the works; the contractor responsible for overseeing the work has since been in touch to apologise for this, and, following 2 letters, 1 from me and 1 from my surveyor, to negotiate re-dress. So hopefully solicitors will not be needed, which I am relieved about - it gets messy.
Of the surrounding (modern) houses only one household is pursuing re-dress through their insurers although I am not what damage they suffered - the others (mostly single storey) are too timid or lazy to act, or perhaps there was no damage to them. Property owner where houses are being built is a long standing thorn in the side of the community.
We thought long and hard about involving our insurers, but advice from a structural engineer indicated that the investigation may mean the house becomes uninsurable. But I will re-check our policy - difficult to have informal discussions with insurers - "In a hypothetical situation..."
Regarding the house and damage; ours is a stone built thatch with rubble filled walls c1700. Small cracks have appeared in many places because of the damage, or because I am looking for them? But three long cracks have appeared on the front wall; the worst is 3-5 mm wide running from just below eaves to ground floor window lintel. These were certainly not there beforehand.
I think I agree that legally the LA were not responsible, but I feel they have been less than helpful. I'm afraid the only thing the CO came up with was "If the works are within 6m then the Party Wall Act may apply...". True, but useless and I could hear him reading from the page of a book. Sorry, probably a bad day for him with a thousand and one things in his in-tray. In a perfect world...!

 

[Paul Hopper]

McDaD
do not give up!

I get the impression that you are someow in "fear" of the contractor or developer who has apparently caused this problem for you.

This is the old "bullying" technique. The "Ive got a bigger gun than you and I'll send the lads round to sort you out if you get in my way."

it sounds as though you have the reports you need but fair enough to the officials concerned, they cannot prejudge the outcome,they will naturally be cautious..

Press on. you will almost certainly need your solicitor and it will cost you, but if there is a genuine case here as you indicate there well may be, trust no official, ask questions, copy in your MP, even if he/she is the wrong side/use the local press, make a damned nuisance of yourself! but make it clear that you are NOT going away until all is to your satisfaction.

I would agree with others that you could end up uninsurable, thus you have no choice but to fight and keep fighting whatever the cost, in the long term your case must be heard! Keep taking measurement, keep a site log, take millions of photographs and have your Engineer/Surveyor date and endorse them, above all never ,ever ,give up. That is what your opposition are relying on.

Keep us posted

Paul Hopper

 

[Ian Bond]

I take it that the stone work is not rendered then?

Do the cracks run through the stone blocks, rather than mortar joints?

If you'd done building work on the house that caused this much damage, I bet the CO would be interested. I'd hope that he/she could be at least persuaded to visit and help you asses the damage and advise on repair.

Is the external wall built to regular courses with dressed stone blocks, or is it random with a rougher finish? Just wondering how easy it would be to make repairs that would not be too noticable.

Has all the heavy worked stopped now, so you can be sure the damage won't worsen, and that the cracks are stable?

If the cracks are superficial (cosmetic) and caused by one-off works, and therefore not likely to worsen, I cannot understand how you'd be un-insurable. But I'm not an insurance expert so I'd be asking my solicitor to advise me if I was in your shoes. My solicitor has been most helpful, and one of the partners specialises in building issues and related neighbour disputes.

 

[Ian Bond]

McDaD
above all never ,ever ,give up. That is what your opposition are relying on.

Keep us posted

Paul Hopper

Quite right Paul, you sound like the sort of person that I would want on my side!

I can only sympathise with McDad's position here - it is incredibly difficult to be the only one to stand up and take action in these situations.

I've done similar things myself, and very nearly got a battering on 2 occassions, but that's another story.

You pay £000s in insurance premiums, and I bet that like me a lot of folk never have to make a claim. To me, this sort of situation is just what the insurance should be there for.

 

[McDad]

Heavy work has stopped.
Fortunately stone work is irregular and cracking is in mortar, so hopefully no ugly work needed. Concern is effects on things we can't see inside the walls/ long lasting weakness in the wall, but SE should be able to indicate any possible things to look for. Might involve CO just to educate LA not to be so laissez-faire.
Will bash on and keep you all posted. Thanks.

 

[Paul Hopper]

Thanks Ian
and McDad

You have to fight.. you can never ever give up.

make up your mind what is fair and reasonable (as you are doing from reading your posts) Then stick to it, firmly..

nil desperandum (never give up ) loosly translated!

Paul

 

[skier-hughes]

McDad,

You still haven't said who is responsible for the work, whether you made an objection... etc etc...

Lots of things here are guesses in the dark.

You now say you have already sent off two letters, and they have responded, but not with what.

As for the LA being laissez-faire, I'm not sure why you think this. If it's an outside contractor it has nothing to do with them.

Perhaps for further advice you'd like to give the full picture.

I'm all for getting redress in this sort of situation and for giving help, but we need some concrete evidence to go on - not that I should imagine concrete comes anywhere near your house :lol: :lol:

Why not start at the very beginning and get everything down in writing.

Graham