Listed Building Consent

[LizS]

Hello,

We've recently purchased a grade II* listed house and we're looking at doing some work to it. I've already made contact with the conservation officer who seems to be really on the ball. However, I was hoping for some advice from people who have already gone through the LBC application process...

I have two main questions:
1. Is it worth getting an agent or planner to compile and submit the application on our behalf, or can we go for it ourselves?
2. The local council offers a pre-application service to look over applications before they are formally submitted. Has anyone used this kind of service before? Is it worth doing?

The works that we have in mind are not particularly big. It's mostly re-arranging bathrooms (e.g. moving bath) and making one bathroom ensuite...

Thanks in advance for any help provided!

 

[DJH]

Just bumping your post up Liz. Can't help you myself I'm afraid but there are a lot on here who can...

Doug

 

[LizS]

Thank you!

 

[Flyfisher]

Welcome to the forum LizS. It can sometimes help people answer questions if you can add your approximate location in your profile. Don't include anything you're uncomfortable with but even a county can be useful.

Regarding your specific questions, I have a GII* house and have successfully submitted three LBC applications - two for repairs and alterations and one for an extension. I did all the paperwork myself, except for the architect drawings of the extension application, so it's certainly possible to do it all yourself. You'll probably find a lot of supporting information about what's required on your local authority website and these days the application can be submitted electronically, so no hassle with getting multiple copies made.

Apart from the standard bureaucratic stuff, which is easily dealt with using the appropriate forms, the basic requirement is to clearly describe the proposed works. In my experience it also helps to write a summary of the thinking behind the proposals in terms of how it will benefit the longer term preservation of the property.

It sounds like you've already done what I would consider the most important thing though - contacting your CO. Ours has been extremely helpful over the past few years, not only with the basic procedural things but also by providing some real expert advice and suggestions that we would have never have thought about. I would say that the ideal situation is to discuss and agree everything with your CO before making any submission so that the actual submission becomes something of a formality. I'd also suggest keeping an open mind though because your CO may be able to help you achieve your aims for property in a slightly different way . . . . in our case an actually better way!

As a GII* property I'm sure you're aware that the application must also be passed to English Heritage for comment but you CO should be able to advise at what stage to inform them of the pending application. In our case, the first two applications required no EH involvement but the third one (a kitchen extension) involved visits by EH. Their officer was not entirely convinced by the initial proposal but our CO was wonderful in convincing EH of the merits of the scheme and the application was approved with no objection or significant changes.

So:

1. Yes, you can certainly handle the submission yourself, though only you can determine if it is worth it. It will take a fair bit of time but you'll save a fair bit of money. My approach has been that I'd rather spend any money on the house rather than plans and drawings, but each to their own.

2. If you can arrange suitable meetings to discuss your plans and proposals with your CO, preferably at your property, then I'm not sure what a "pre-application service" will gain you. However, different councils deal with things in different ways but I think the worst case is probably that the council would request any missing information anyway.

So get your thoughts together, stock up on tea and biscuits and invite your CO to visit.

Best of luck and do please let us know how you get on.

 

[LizS]

Thank you so much for such a detailed, and useful, reply! I really appreciate it and will start paving the way to get the CO out for a look at the property...

I will keep you posted!

 

[88v8]

.....how it will benefit the longer term preservation of the property.

Hello Liz
Well done for taking on a GII* house.

You may be aware, but for the avoidance of disappointment, bear in mind that preservation is the CO's remit. The convenience of the owners comes nowhere.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

It might be worth expanding on Ivor's point because although it's basically correct I don't think it's necessarily so clear cut. The point of listing is certainly to preserve historic buildings but disallowing any changes would render such buildings unattractive for modern habitation - and nothing decays faster than an unoccupied property.

An extreme example would be, say, a 400 year old property with no electricity, no plumbing and only open fires an outdoor privy and a well. Who would want to live in such a perfectly preserved property these days?

The challenge, therefore, is to preserve the historic fabric of a property while allowing sympathetic alterations and/or additions that will keep the property attractive to occupy today and into the future. That is possibly the most important thing we can do to ensure the continued survival of historic properties.

 

[88v8]

Yes, well said.

Ivor

 

[Keithj]

I can only echo that. Our CO was a great help, in that he pointed out that we would get permission to do what we "really wanted" rather than what we thought he wanted!

If the CO supports what you propose before the application goes in, you would be very unlucky if you had any problems thereafter.

 

[MatthewC]

I have two main questions:
1. Is it worth getting an agent or planner to compile and submit the application on our behalf, or can we go for it ourselves?
2. The local council offers a pre-application service to look over applications before they are formally submitted. Has anyone used this kind of service before? Is it worth doing?

The answer to both questions in my experience is that it depends on the council and the individual CO. We used an architect, and found out that the CO preferred applicants who did these things themselves, and even seemed to be annoyed by such agents being involved. Conversely the planners seemed to prefer the architect as I expected! I wish that they had suggested a pre-application service (if they did one) but even if you do have any pre-application meetings there is no certainty that approval will follow if you do as they say (bitter experience!).

If you do use an agent then they need to have knowledge of how the council operates (and how the CO thinks) - so find an agent who admits to having done similar applications successfully with that council.

Matthew

 

[LizS]

Thank you so much for these responses - it's very interesting to hear about different experiences you've all had.

I spoke to our CO earlier and they no longer do the whole tea & biscuits site visit thing, Wiltshire Council has decided to formalise a lot of its processes. Apparently the only way to get someone out now is by using the pre-application service to request a site visit. So I guess that's one of my questions well and truly answered! I shall be attacking the forms tomorrow... :?

 

[malcolm]

Apparently the only way to get someone out now is by using the pre-application service to request a site visit. So I guess that's one of my questions well and truly answered! I shall be attacking the forms tomorrow... :?

Don't fall for that one!

We did a pre-application for that reason and there was no obvious contribution from the conservation officer in the response 8 weeks later. Certainly no visit as requested, no friendly chats. No feedback at all.

If I were doing it again I would search the local council planning applications online for recent applications for similar buildings, check out the extra attached documents added after the planning was decided, find any letters from the conservation officer, find his number, give him a phone. It is really you that needs to phone not your architect. Though sounds like you have actually spoken to him.

Otherwise bung plans for a full application and see what happens. Start with what YOU want not with what your architect thinks the conservation officer will want. Doesn't take any longer than the pre-application and isn't much more expensive.

If the conservation officer wants something different he'll impose his will when you start trying to agree materials etc when you want to start building. Allow several months for that.

 

[Flyfisher]

The answer to both questions in my experience is that it depends on the council and the individual CO.

Indeed. We often discuss how listed properties are all unique and that a 'one size fits all' approach is not really appropriate when dealing with them. Perhaps we should extend such consideration to councils and COs? :wink:

 

[LadyArowana]

I would mention that a certain well qualified friend of mine ( who is not, AFAIK, a member here ) tends to slightly "overstuff" applications, on the basis that there are then things she is prepared to sacrifice/ modify along the way, so that it looks like she has compromised and gone along with recommended amendments. Her reasoning is that ( in her area ) they like to feel they have had a little meddle. Note : Your results may vary.