Linseed oil Paint and double glazing

[mp11]

Hi

I have been lurking here for 12 months and gained a lot useful information for renovating our early victorian house. Our windows are beyond repair and we have just ordered new mahogany sliding sash windows and hope to finish them in linseed oil paint.

We learned about linseed oil paint here and after researching it for the last few months we don't want to put anything else on our windows. All was fine until a few days ago, we just completed the deal on our new windows and the joinery making them will paint them with linseed oil paint which we will supply but now we realise that linseed oil will break down the butyl seals on double glazed panels.

We contacted Allback directly and they confirmed this but said it should be ok if the paint doesn't touch the butyl seals but they are not sure. The window sashes will be painted before the double glazing units are inserted and will have a 2mm gap around all the edges with plastic spacers to ensure this is maintained.

Has anyone here any advice or experience to share on how we can make it work because not using double glazing is not an option and we really want to use linseed oil paint. We could also put a water tight tape around the glazing unit but not sure if this is ideal for the butyl seals.

Any advice on using linseed oil paint on mahogany.

Thanks

 

[plasticpigeon]

I'm pleased to hear you are having spacers and an air gap, that is the proper way to do it. It sounds like the seals won't be touching the paint, but just in case perhaps tape is a good idea. I have seen double glazing companies put foil tape over the butyl seals. Can you talk to the manufacturer of the double glazed units about this?.

 

[paulb33]

I'm pleased to hear you are having spacers and an air gap, that is the proper way to do it. It sounds like the seals won't be touching the paint, but just in case perhaps tape is a good idea. I have seen double glazing companies put foil tape over the butyl seals. Can you talk to the manufacturer of the double glazed units about this?.

Linseed oil is fab. A joy to apply and looks great. It works with hardwoods, albeit doesn't penetrate like on softwoods. But this is kind of a moot point, given the hardwood has density and oils protecting it already.

Will you be painting them up before fitting? Or, in situ? If the latter, British weather is your foe. The paint will dry within 24 hours in dry 20C temps. Rain creates an almighty mess. Please don't ask how I know..... Suffice to say I've taken advantage of the last week's fine weather to REpaint my 50 windows.

 

[mp1]

I have seen double glazing companies put foil tape over the butyl seals. Can you talk to the manufacturer of the double glazed units about this?.

The company making the double glazing units said that they have never seen the units fail due to linseed oil paint but don't know if they have ever been fitted to windows painted in linseed oil paint. I will go back and ask them if I can put tape over the butyl seals.

Thanks

 

[DJH]

That explains why you've been missing for a while Paul...

Doug

 

[skier-hughes]

All will be fine with the air gap. Our D/G manufacturer uses a foil sealing tape. Our oldest windows are only 9 years old now, but we have had no trouble,

 

[paulb33]

That explains why you've been missing for a while Paul...

Doug

Yeah, Doug. Hit a few low points, hence radio silence, but nearing the end now. Will post some photos shortly.

 

[mp1]

Will you be painting them up before fitting? Or, in situ? If the latter, British weather is your foe. The paint will dry within 24 hours in dry 20C temps. Rain creates an almighty mess. Please don't ask how I know..... Suffice to say I've taken advantage of the last week's fine weather to REpaint my 50 windows.

The Joinery making our windows will be painting them in their workshop so we don't need to worry about the weather. We are actually living in Ireland and the weather over here is not any better.

Has anyone any experience of using linseed oil paint on mahogany. It is very hard to get any information here on linseed oil paint but the one and only person we found who uses it said he does not use linseed oil for the 1st coat on teak. He found that it took forever for the linseed oil to dry so he just applies the linseed oil paint directly.

 

[Zebra]

You oil the frames with raw linseed oil first, then paint the rebates and the backs of the beadings with shellac. This forms a imperveous layer and stops the linseed oil getting to the seals of the glazing. Then you paint the windows, I did a primer coat before installing them of linseed oil paint with zinc oxide - supplied by Allbacks - then installed the windows, then glazed them, with a bead of butyl putty - not linseed putty - on the exterior face, and a bead of neutral cure silicone on the interior face, there was nothing around the panes, they were quite a tight fit. There may be other ways of installing the panes, sometimes I believe neutral cure silicone is used on the exterior face and butyl putty on the interior face. Anyway, in my case beadings were fitted on the inside, and then the whole thing given another two coats of linseed oil paint.
Clear instructions for use when installing new double glazed windows were definately available at the time as a download from Holkams website. Holkams have now renamed themselves Allbacks, so I imagine it is now available on Allbacks website. If not then I'm sure they can advise, and I would take their advice over that of your glazer or window manufacturer.

 

[mp1]

You oil the frames with raw linseed oil first, then paint the rebates and the backs of the beadings with shellac. This forms a imperveous layer and stops the linseed oil getting to the seals of the glazing. Then you paint the windows, I did a primer coat before installing them of linseed oil paint with zinc oxide - supplied by Allbacks - then installed the windows, then glazed them, with a bead of butyl putty - not linseed putty - on the exterior face, and a bead of neutral cure silicone on the interior face, there was nothing around the panes, they were quite a tight fit. There may be other ways of installing the panes, sometimes I believe neutral cure silicone is used on the exterior face and butyl putty on the interior face. Anyway, in my case beadings were fitted on the inside, and then the whole thing given another two coats of linseed oil paint.
Clear instructions for use when installing new double glazed windows were definately available at the time as a download from Holkams website. Holkams have now renamed themselves Allbacks, so I imagine it is now available on Allbacks website. If not then I'm sure they can advise, and I would take their advice over that of your glazer or window manufacturer.

Thanks Zebra

Lots of useful information. I can't find any mention on Allbacks website in relation to linseed oil paint and double glazing and they were vague when I spoke to them but I will give them a shout again. I like the idea of using shellac so does this mean that I don't need to cover the butyl seals with tape?

The Double Glazing manufacturers won't specify any tape to use on their units because they don't want to be held accountable it they fail and have indicated that we will void our warranty if they are fitted to windows painted in linseed oil paint.

Thanks

 

[Zebra]

Yes, I voided my warranty on DG units because I fitted them myself. Oh well, if some go wrong, I'll replace them.
For info go here "http://www.greenshop.co.uk/natural-paint-128/gloss-exterior-133/holkham-linseed-paints-174/" and click on the link "Useful hints and application tips"

 

[piper]

We did exactly as Zebra describes, with Douglas Fir windows, when we had our extension built in 2008. Hot linseed oil priming, then painted the rebates with shellac. Linseed oil paint on the outside of the windows, natural wood unpainted inside the room. No problems (yet!). The linseed paint is very good, though does look dull after a time, and the biggest problem up here in Cumbria was getting dry enough weather to do it, though this year it would have been fine. It was Holkam's in those days, and the instructions were on their website.