supermattt
Member
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- London E1
Does anyonme know where I could get some lime plaster in London on a Sunday?
Thanks
Thanks
- Thread starter supermattt
- Start date
biffvernon
Member
- Messages
- 4,607
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Just use a bag of hydrated lime. It works OK on Sundays.
Nigel Watts
Member
- Messages
- 1,779
- Location
- London N7
Almost certainly closed on a Sunday, but Abbey Rose Buildbase in Peckham is worth a try on other days of the week. In the past I have bought tubs of lime putty there, from stock.
supermattt
Member
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- London E1
Great thanks guys. What is Lime putty for? In fact are there differnt types and how do I decide which I need?
Thanks again
Thanks again
biffvernon
Member
- Messages
- 4,607
- Location
- Lincolnshire
supermattt said:
Mortar between the brick or stone for building walls
Render on the outside of a building
Plaster on the inside
Limewash
Grouting between flags and tiles
etc.etc.
Anywhere where the silly folk use cement except underwater where you should use hydraulic lime instead of lime putty.
supermattt
Member
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- London E1
Thanks,
So I should just et a tub of Lime Putty and then I can use it as render And Plaster? Would I add more water to it when using as plaster? I want to get rid of the concrete render and non breathable plaster on an inside wall and replace with lime...so all I need is Lime putty?
Thanks again
Matt
So I should just et a tub of Lime Putty and then I can use it as render And Plaster? Would I add more water to it when using as plaster? I want to get rid of the concrete render and non breathable plaster on an inside wall and replace with lime...so all I need is Lime putty?
Thanks again
Matt
Gervase
Member
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- North London
You use the putty as the basis for your render/plaster/mortar - just add sharp sand, usually in a 1:3 ratio (one tub of render to three tubs of sharp sand).
A builder's merchant will sell you sharp sand - make sure it's not the soft, yellow stuff so beloved of London brickies.
Knocking it up will raise a good sweat - pour off and save the water on the top, then empty out the putty into half the sand on a large board before setting to work with a garden hoe or a shovel, chopping and mixing the putty with the sand. When you have a fairly uniform grey mix of sticky putty and sand, add the rest of the sand.
Lime plasters and renders are meant to be used pretty 'stiff', unlike modern gypsum and cement-based stuff that gloops like cow-dung, so be wary of adding extra water. If it's excessively dry, add the water you poured off the top of the putty at the beginning, with maybe a bit extra if it really needs it. Lime-based stuff will tend to get softer the more you work it, though, so slap it about a bit before deciding to add water (it's easy to add, but hard to take away!). Too much water and you'll have a render/plaster/mortar that will shrink and crack.
Once you've applied it, cover it with wet sacking or damp cloth to keep it damp - lime products 'set' by absorbing carbon dioxide slowly from the air while damp. Being soaking wet or bone dry will stop this happening, so you need to keep it shady and damp while it goes off (allow a day or so, and maybe help it with a fine spray - the sort you use on indoor plants).
If you're plastering, do it in two or ideally three thin (half inch or less) coats rather than dolloping it on thickly. Allow each coat to set slightly before appling the next, and scour the first two coats with a comb like an Afro comb or a few sharp sticks to give a key to the subsequent coat. As each coat starts to set, rub it down firmly with a wooden or plastic float to close up the cracks, get rid of the tool marks and firm it up. The top coat can be finished with a steel trowel for a super-smooth finish or a wooden float for a softer finish.
Good luck, and any problems, just ask...
A builder's merchant will sell you sharp sand - make sure it's not the soft, yellow stuff so beloved of London brickies.
Knocking it up will raise a good sweat - pour off and save the water on the top, then empty out the putty into half the sand on a large board before setting to work with a garden hoe or a shovel, chopping and mixing the putty with the sand. When you have a fairly uniform grey mix of sticky putty and sand, add the rest of the sand.
Lime plasters and renders are meant to be used pretty 'stiff', unlike modern gypsum and cement-based stuff that gloops like cow-dung, so be wary of adding extra water. If it's excessively dry, add the water you poured off the top of the putty at the beginning, with maybe a bit extra if it really needs it. Lime-based stuff will tend to get softer the more you work it, though, so slap it about a bit before deciding to add water (it's easy to add, but hard to take away!). Too much water and you'll have a render/plaster/mortar that will shrink and crack.
Once you've applied it, cover it with wet sacking or damp cloth to keep it damp - lime products 'set' by absorbing carbon dioxide slowly from the air while damp. Being soaking wet or bone dry will stop this happening, so you need to keep it shady and damp while it goes off (allow a day or so, and maybe help it with a fine spray - the sort you use on indoor plants).
If you're plastering, do it in two or ideally three thin (half inch or less) coats rather than dolloping it on thickly. Allow each coat to set slightly before appling the next, and scour the first two coats with a comb like an Afro comb or a few sharp sticks to give a key to the subsequent coat. As each coat starts to set, rub it down firmly with a wooden or plastic float to close up the cracks, get rid of the tool marks and firm it up. The top coat can be finished with a steel trowel for a super-smooth finish or a wooden float for a softer finish.
Good luck, and any problems, just ask...
Lime plaster is typically 3:1 sand and lime putty. Lime putty can be made by mixing bagged hydrated lime (from any bm/shed) with water to make a creamy paste, and storing it for a few weeks in an airtight container. Biff is suggesting using it without storage, not tried it meself but he reckons it works fine.
NT
NT
supermattt
Member
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- London E1
Brilliant thanks,
I've got a 27kg tub of mature Lime Putty from Abbey Rose Buildbase in Peckham. I rode my bike there not really knowing how big it would be. I ordered a taxi and when it arrived the driver refused to take the big tub cause he thought it would spill and thought I wouldn't turn up at the other end. So I thought sod it and walked from Peckham to Whitechapel (4.7miles) with limey water dripping down my legs and sweating in the hot sun...it was pretty fun.
Anyway I didn't realise I needed sand, not that I could have carried it anyway. I'll be hacking off plaster and concrete render today and see if I can get some sand tomorrow morning to have a go at the lime plastering. I can't wait.
So what is a 'float' and any suggestions for how to cover a vertical wall with a damp cloth without it falling off? I'm going to take off conrete render and non-breathable plaster...do I need to replace to render with a different ratio of sand:lime and then the plaster with another ratio, say more lime, or can I just use the 3:1 strait onto the brickwork and then paint over the third smoothed layer? Am I right in thinking the excercise would be useless unless I finish with a breathable paint? Can I just water down some lime putty and use it like a lime wash paint?
Thanks everyone for all yor very useful comments
Matt
I've got a 27kg tub of mature Lime Putty from Abbey Rose Buildbase in Peckham. I rode my bike there not really knowing how big it would be. I ordered a taxi and when it arrived the driver refused to take the big tub cause he thought it would spill and thought I wouldn't turn up at the other end. So I thought sod it and walked from Peckham to Whitechapel (4.7miles) with limey water dripping down my legs and sweating in the hot sun...it was pretty fun.
Anyway I didn't realise I needed sand, not that I could have carried it anyway. I'll be hacking off plaster and concrete render today and see if I can get some sand tomorrow morning to have a go at the lime plastering. I can't wait.
So what is a 'float' and any suggestions for how to cover a vertical wall with a damp cloth without it falling off? I'm going to take off conrete render and non-breathable plaster...do I need to replace to render with a different ratio of sand:lime and then the plaster with another ratio, say more lime, or can I just use the 3:1 strait onto the brickwork and then paint over the third smoothed layer? Am I right in thinking the excercise would be useless unless I finish with a breathable paint? Can I just water down some lime putty and use it like a lime wash paint?
Thanks everyone for all yor very useful comments
Matt
biffvernon
Member
- Messages
- 4,607
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Is the a PPUK award for devotion to the Cause of Lime? There should be.supermattt said:
A float is a tool used by plasterers to make plaster flat. It's an oblong board with a handle. Lime plasteres sometimes say that a wooden or plastic one is better than a metal one.
3;1 mix is about right for everything. Some say nearer to 2:1 for the top coat can give a smoother finish.
Limewash is OK. For indoor use there are various ways of making it a bit less easy to rub off. Adding casein (or skimmed milk powder) maybe the simplest.
Gervase
Member
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- North London
Heroic stuff - well done!
As Biff says, the float is something that a good hardware shop should be able to get for you. Brand names to look out for are Emir for wooden floats and Marshaltown or Tyzack for steel floats.
Have a look at this article for some basics, and also look at http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/limebasic/limebasic.htm and http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/plaster/plaster.htm - and this pdf: http://www.womersleys.co.uk/pdfs/plasteringwithfat.pdf
Don't panic - it's not rocket science. It can be frustrating when you start, but lime plastering is as addictive as crack cocaine, and is a nice boast to be able to make at parties.
As Biff says, the float is something that a good hardware shop should be able to get for you. Brand names to look out for are Emir for wooden floats and Marshaltown or Tyzack for steel floats.
Have a look at this article for some basics, and also look at http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/limebasic/limebasic.htm and http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/plaster/plaster.htm - and this pdf: http://www.womersleys.co.uk/pdfs/plasteringwithfat.pdf
Don't panic - it's not rocket science. It can be frustrating when you start, but lime plastering is as addictive as crack cocaine, and is a nice boast to be able to make at parties.
