lime plaster again

[plasticpigeon]

Hello all. I am now at a point where I'm going to get my kitchen plastered. The floor is quarry tiles on earth and the walls are 9" brick. I am hoping to get it lime plastered but it is expensive it seems. A guy that I would like to use doesn't think much of hydraulic lime plaster and really wants to use putty. However he has estimated that it will cost around £2000 - £2500 for the room which is 15ft by 9ft by 9ft high. He didn't seem too against the idea of dot and dabbing and boarding as a cheaper option. Has anyone had 1st hand bad experience of dotting and dabbing in a room that will inevitably have water vapour produced in it (in my case from the floor and cooking). Also is that a normal price for lime plastering???

Many thanks

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Your information suggests that you have solid (not cavity) brick walls, and that all the old plaster has been removed back to the brick. Is that right? In that case I would be looking to introduce some insulation into the scheme, either by lining with insulated plasterboard or by battening the walls and fitting rigid slab (PIR) insulation board between before plasterboarding over. How is the brickwork treated externally? If it's cement rendered then you might experience damp issues - ideally it would be lime pointed or lime rendered.

The advantage of using the battening system is that you can place battens strategically for later attachment of kitchen units etc. though this obviously requires a bit of forward planning. Wiring runs can also be positioned easily.

If you are keen on sustainablilty then a hemp-lime plaster might be an alternative, providing a solid finish with better insulation than ordinary plaster.

As you are 'replacing a thermal element' in the building the work should really comply with the Building Regs part L with respect to the insulation values achieved. Most people wouldn't worry about that, but the opportunity to insulate and thus reduce heating demand should not be overlooked. The higher surface temperature of insulated walls will help to prevent surface condensation - particularly relevant in a kitchen.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

That works out at at about £15-18 per square yard - that seems pricey to me.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Hello Andrew. I'm not so keen on battening, really because none of my window or door architraves will be in the right place anymore!!! We'll also loose a few inches from what is not a huge kitchen (there is a pantry within the room making it seem smaller). The walls are all dry right now and they are solid 9", with a mixture of pointing, some lime, some cement, but mainly cement that is falling out!

Has anyone heard of this company and plaster??? Hydraulic lime and perlite, they claim better insulation.

http://telling.co.uk/telling-lime/hydraulic-lime/condensation-insulation/

Also if this quote I have had is expensive, does anyone know what is a reasonable price for lime plaster??? I really only want 2 coat work nothing fancy.

Many thanks.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Hello Family Wiggs. The price included the ceiling to be plasterboarded, so that wouldn't be lime. Assuming this would be a couple of hundred, I could still say roughly 2000 for 48 square yards which is around £42 m^2!!! One builder told me he thought that lime plastering was around £50 m^2. It does seem a lot.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Can someone else check our maths? It seems exhorbitant if you ask me. Lime plastering is not particularly skilled labour - so say £150 per day for labour. At £50/m2 that would imply that the chap could only say 4m2 per day once you factor in some materials.

Doesn't soudn right or in line with my previous experience...

 

[MatthewC]

Can someone else check our maths? It seems exhorbitant if you ask me. Lime plastering is not particularly skilled labour - so say £150 per day for labour.

I wish I'd been able to get mine done for that figure - it's about what I paid the spread but then there's his mate as well (mixing, making a mess, carrying, loading the hawk, singing badly...). So I reckon you're lucky to pay less that £230/day for a pair (or else the one bloke does it all, and so achieves less each day).

does anyone know what is a reasonable price for lime plaster??? I really only want 2 coat work nothing fancy.

Did your plasterer quote for just two coats? I would expect 3 (or 4 for a fine finish). Then you have to look at it from the point of view of days worked - I don't think he would manage one coat on the whole room in a day (about 30-35m sq is what I recall), so you have a day and a half per coat which he might round to 2 days (or he wastes half a day on your behalf). Hence 3 coats would be six days, and if he has a mate then that's about £1400. Don't forget that there's a lot of "doing something else" while it starts to go off before it is trowelled again on the same day, and then he will be leaving each coat to dry for some days before the next coat; hence they have to tidy up completely after each coat, and then bring it all again when he comes back. Then there's the materials - and my mental arithmetic says that you need about 1.6 tonnes (sounds a lot but work out the volume according to the thickness - mine was about 20mm). The material price will depend on your supply obviously, but in 10L tubs that would be about £450 or so. The total cost is in the ballpark, I think (I'm not a professional estimator, and wouldn't want to be!).

I know it sounds a lot but you have to go for it. Surely you don't really want to batten or dot and dab? NB I think the most important thing in a kitchen is good ventilation, so think of that dampness trapped behind the board.

Final option - you could do it yourself. I did a single wall (7 m sq) myself at the end rather than pay the team for four separate small bits of work , and it was most satisfying!

 

[AMc]

I'm not so keen on battening, really because none of my window or door architraves will be in the right place anymore!!! We'll also loose a few inches from what is not a huge kitchen (there is a pantry within the room making it seem smaller). The walls are all dry right now and they are solid 9", with a mixture of pointing, some lime, some cement, but mainly cement that is falling out!

My kitchen walls are solid 9" brick, they were dry. We battened then used insulated plasterboard over the top. I "lost" about 60mm in total or less than 2 1/2 inches from the wall - you don't notice it at all. The window cills had to be deeper that's it.
I had much more than you skimmed for much less than your quote but I'd already paid out for the board and fixing which was a job I could have DIYed if I hadn't been doing much more work. If insulating means you lose more than 5% of the floor area you'd be able to argue it wasn't required but that would be a very, very small room

I can't see any logic at all in dot and dab and gypsm skim - the worst of both worlds - smooth walls, risk of condensation and moisture behind the board and lousy energy efficiency too.

If you're going to go down the lime plaster route then it's going to be more expensive but ultimately more authentic and breathable. At least a wet plastered solid brick wall is very air tight, it's an approach often used in green new building.

I would also be slightly concerned about a tradesperson who isn't worried about building regs or hasn't at least mentioned them. Good trades rely on mutal respect between them and the inspectors to keep jobs moving, which means complying.

Ultimately if you don't like the price then you need to get at least one more quote to see if its fair. I would also ask for customer references, a few pounds saving can amount to a world of trouble.

 

[Woody3]

My advice would be to get at least 2 more tradesmen in to price up the works, then judge from there...

I'd also go down the lime route...

 

[skier-hughes]

We paid £4k for a similar sized room, more travelling for our prefered plasterer, and it was 7 long days work for 2 people and 3 people on two days