Lime - again.

[Nemesis]

Short rant.

We had a flood last night - the rain was so heavy the adjacent burn rose in the space of an hour to a torrent and burst its banks. The damage thankfully was slight, we managed to use bags of sand to stop the water pouring in down the air vent under the dining room floor and the passsage to the kitchen (flagstones so once we got the water out they are drying). A shed was flooded but not much damage, our roadway a bit washed away. I gather more weather to come so we are busy putting up flood defences.

Part of the problem is the water came through a wall which has no mortar, and it clearly needs rebuilding. So Other Half went into the local Jewsons this morning to see if he could order some hydraulic lime. The two kids behind the counter looked blank.

Two builders waiting to be served tried to be helpful - told him what they did when lime was specified was to use hydrate and bung in some cement. That way it set faster.

It's hopeless isn't it? They clearly thought him barking when he tried to explain.

 

[BMcD]

There ignorance seems obvious but there method isn't quite so daft as all they're doing is effectively adding a pozzolan to air lime albeit a wholly inappropriate one. Burnt clay, crushed tiles, volcanic ash or metastar would be better in turning a lime putty into a hydraulic lime

 

[Lime]

It might be a good idea if the lime manufacturers produced some informative leaflets detailing the various forms of Lime and it's use.
They could be on display in builders merchants for all to see.
Often builders take a lively interest in different materials and methods and would find them useful.
Not all builders are bad but many are badly informed.

I was talking to a painter and decorator a few weeks ago about the use of lime.
In the past as a builder he has used lime (correctly) and he recounted to me the problems of the plasterers etc all those years ago.
Dust was a major problem for many of them as they became covered in the stuff.
Also the plasterers developed hand problems (skin and finger damage) as the skin was attacked by the lime.

 

[Nemesis]

The problem is round here - the only lime to be had is bagged hydrate - and that's not because people wish to make putty out of it.

And there is usually no reason to add anything to lime putty when using it to point, but many really have not a lot of idea about why it is used and how and its properties.

Trying to explain brings puzzled and amused looks.

I'm afraid many builders say they will use lime and then mix it with cement.

 

[Lime]

Back in the 60s when lime was really out of favour hydrated lime was used in cement to make it "buttery".
..Useful for flaunching chimneys and creating smooth sides in manholes/drains.

 

[Nemesis]

That's about what it's still used for round here!

 

[biffvernon]

It might be a good idea if the lime manufacturers produced some informative leaflets detailing the various forms of Lime and it's use.

Singleton Birch, the Lincolnshire producer of both hydrated and hydraulic limes, have put a good deal of effort into lime education and would, no doubt, welcome support from the retail trade.

 

[Nemesis]

There's plenty of information about lime but I think that too many in the building trades simply aren't interested in the science!

 

[Penners]

There's plenty of information about lime but I think that too many in the building trades simply aren't interested in the science!

Quite right. They're interested in (a) a material they can buy over the counter anywhere, anytime, and (b) a mortar that will cure quickly, so they can move on to the next job.

Actually, if there's education to be done, then I believe it's the customers who need this. Once enough people are insisting that their builders use lime mortars, the trade will adapt quickly enough.

But that's an awfully big education job.

 

[pandora]

Also the plasterers developed hand problems (skin and finger damage) as the skin was attacked by the lime

Mine has never used lime before but has now been educated and is finding to his surprise he is rather enjoying it. They are plastering at the moment and he is helping the plasterer. He refuses to wear gloves and his hands are being eaten away!

 

[charlie-ia]

Does dust from old lime and rubble bring out a little knobbly rash over a few days?

 

[Penners]

a little knobbly rash

Grimmers, where art thou?

 

[Nemesis]

I am sure Brunny would have attested to it being not a little knob - bly.

 

[Penners]

Size is, of course, relative. To a 2-inch nut, a 1 and 3/4 inch bolt is small.

 

[plumbers mate]

If you need a hand, Nem, let me know and I can hop on the train or bus for a few hours of nurdling.

 

[Penners]

For I nurdled my possit and scumbled my node.

In fond memory of Rambling Sid Rumpo and Round The Horne.

 

[Nemesis]

Thank PM - may take you up on that, but we have your windows to do and Im Indoors isn't too well at the moment!