lead paint

[plasticpigeon]

Hello there

Does anyone have any advice about lead paint please. We have lots in the house on all the joinery. Some of the paint is a bit flakey and there are areas where it has chipped off too. As there are so many layers of paint on the joinery i was planning to remove it rather than paint over, and thought I would use a peelaway poultice type method so that there is no dust created. However I have just found out that my girlfriend is pregnant and I'm now in a pickle about what to do as any lead is terrible for unborn and young children. Incidentally, my neighbour recently burned all the paint of his woodwork with a heat gun. I'm sure that all the paint he took off was lead too, it can't have been good for him, (or us as we could smell it we live in a terrace). Any advice would be very gratefully received.

 

[Flyfisher]

Quite apart from the very real health risks - especially for young children and during pregnancy - I'm in two minds about stripping old paint. There's a definite 'look' about paintwork that has been built up over many decades and it sometimes just doesn't look right for old doors and other woodwork to be 'crisp' and new looking after being stripped bare and painted afresh.

Accordingly, I'd be thinking about some basic surface preparation, possibly using one of those abrasive sponge thingies and using it wet to avoid creating any dust, followed by overpainting.

I've not used a polutice stripper, though I imagine they are pretty safe for the reasons you've already noted. Burning off old lead paint is certainly not to be recommended.

 

[Moo]

I'm not sure I agree. When the doors/windows/mouldings were first installed the intention would have been a 'crisp' look. If not, they would have made them accordingly.
And I think you'd be very lucky to inherit paintwork that had been applied by generations of meticulous craftsmen; chances are that somewhere along the line a layer or two had been bodged by someone in a hurry.

I suppose it all depends on the quality of the paintwork, and its age. Even if it's pretty good, there must come a time when detailing has not just become a bit blurred, but virtually lost*. In which case I'd get a great big tub of the poultice stuff and start the process all over again.


* as it was on the inside of our sash windows before we stripped them: and they don't look too 'new', honest!

 

[LadyArowana]

I'm not sure I agree. When the doors/windows/mouldings were first installed the intention would have been a 'crisp' look. If not, they would have made them accordingly.
And I think you'd be very lucky to inherit paintwork that had been applied by generations of meticulous craftsmen; chances are that somewhere along the line a layer or two had been bodged by someone in a hurry.

I suppose it all depends on the quality of the paintwork, and its age. Even if it's pretty good, there must come a time when detailing has not just become a bit blurred, but virtually lost*. In which case I'd get a great big tub of the poultice stuff and start the process all over again.


* as it was on the inside of our sash windows before we stripped them: and they don't look too 'new', honest!

Wise words, some things are shabby chic, and some things are just shabby. One of my personal pet hates is deliberately distressed furniture, always seems very silly to me..... ( along with patchwork quilts made by buying yardage of perfectly fine material and then chopping it up, I can exempt some "art" quilts though, if they are exceptionally beautiful ) However I know it's a personal thing, I'm sure there are lots of people who also like round carpets, swivel chairs, standard lamps and breakfast bars.

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm not sure I agree. When the doors/windows/mouldings were first installed the intention would have been a 'crisp' look. If not, they would have made them accordingly.

I'm not entirely sure myself, hence my 'two minds' comment. I entirely agree that layers and layers of paint obscuring fine detailing is a bad thing, but a few 'rounded edges' on doors and panelling is somewhat different.

I'm sure most things would have been 'crisp' when first installed but don't we also enjoy the 'patina of age'? What would be the general view about planing the top few mm off historic floorboards to rid them of all those disfiguring scratches, dents and general marks in order to return them to their original 'crispness'?

Tricky stuff, this conservation malarky.

As for the difference between 'shabby chic' and just plain 'shabby', I sometimes wonder if it's more to do with postcodes than anything else. :wink:

 

[philpjuk100]

Ernest,a friend of the family was a painter/decorator and used to burn all paint off with his highly polished blowlamp,it did not do him any harm,he lived into his late forties! (fell off his ladder!) phil.

 

[JoceAndChris]

If you are going to attack your lead paint make absolutely sure you have a wonderful through draft, and everything gets vaccuumed and cleaned up straight away. And wear a mask and gloves.

If all mouldings are obscured, shutters are pinned open with paint, windows won't open, you have to do something. But I deeply regret the hours and hours I spent gratuitously stripping lead paint when we first moved here ( by means of hot air gun and Nitromors) I just don't know why I bothered, uneven, dented and dinged, glooped and thick with age - that's all wonderful and I don't know why I couldn't see it. There's a very beautiful and ancient pub in Stamford, the Tobie Norris, and they weren't allowed to strip the paint!

I also think it's a really sweet thing to let the future owners see a record of the colour schemes - so if it is all coming off, take some pics!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Ernest,a friend of the family was a painter/decorator and used to burn all paint off with his highly polished blowlamp,it did not do him any harm,he lived into his late forties! (fell off his ladder!) phil.

Brain damage?

 

[plasticpigeon]

Thanks for the comments. Really the paint is both very thick and also very chipped. There are areas where I have taken old bell wire, phone wire and electric cable of the architraves and the paint round the edge is very chipped and flakey. I really just want to be know that when a corner gets bumped that lead paint flakes aren't going to drop off. Honestly, even on our bannister rail the paint is chipping spontaneously. I get chips on the floor coming off the hinges and where the door hits the frame so I really want it gone. I'm sure it will be a massive job, and I might do the unthinkable and get my doors dipped!!!!

I stripped a tiny bit or architrave and the original layer is chocolate brown. I also stripped one sash down the bottom of the garden, and the arch filler of the sash stupidly on some scaffold as I'm sure some of the dust blew into the house and they were pretty much the same as it is now, white sash and green frame although the frame was darker than the present colour.

 

[philpjuk100]

Ernest,a friend of the family was a painter/decorator and used to burn all paint off with his highly polished blowlamp,it did not do him any harm,he lived into his late forties! (fell off his ladder!) phil.

Brain damage?

Too many lunchtime pints then leaning too far doing the soffits! (a long time before "elf and saftey")

 

[jocelyn plummer]

wonderful through draft

Draught might be better!!!!!!!- :roll:

 

[LadyArowana]

I also think it's a really sweet thing to let the future owners see a record of the colour schemes - so if it is all coming off, take some pics!

You could wait until it's thick enough to carve into a cabochon and then make something to wear! Fordite, or automotive agate as it's sometimes called comes from layers of paint build up. http://www.fordite.com/cabochons.htm

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: what an affordable jewel!

And oh dear, even I've become infected by American spellings, sorry Joss.

It does sound like the paint's got to come off if it's that loose, though I still think I'd be sanding off flaking ( whilst wearing adequate protection, sending the lady out for baby shopping, vacuuming well afterwards), and then repainting once I had a good key.

I remember thinking " this paint's nearly off!" only to find that whilst some was loose, the vast majority was still extremely attached to the woodwork, especially the bottom layers, which turned into a vicious soup of stinging fumes and gloop. It took around 8 months to decorate the music room with the paint stripping we created.

 

[Lime]

Ernest,a friend of the family was a painter/decorator and used to burn all paint off with his highly polished blowlamp,it did not do him any harm,he lived into his late forties! (fell off his ladder!) phil.

Brain damage?

Too many lunchtime pints then leaning too far doing the soffits! (a long time before "elf and saftey")

I used a heat gun indoors to scrape off lead paint 20 odd years ago.
I did it every day for about 2 months.
I developed a muscular spasm within my ear that sounded like a small flying insect!!!
However that went away after the work was done in about a week.

 

[CliffordPope]

You don't "burn" paint, the skill is in softening it sufficiently to peal off with the scraper, while moving the flame on to the next bit.
If you end up with burnt wood and bits of smouldering paint peelings on the floor, then you're not doing it right.

 

[AMc]

Any advice would be very gratefully received.

Congratulations! As a parent of an 8 year old I thoroughly recommend you do a "to do" list audit now. Work out what your house really needs to be habitable and child friendly for the next 3 years. Once that baby arrives you will have no time/energy/money to do most of the jobs on the list so prioritise and work on the house now while you still can! Anything involving doing without body washing, cooking or washing machines needs to be done very soon!

I have used a heat gun to soften and scrape paint of various ages from old doors. If you burn the paint it doesn't come off and damages the wood, brings out the resin in knots etc. I did this outside on windy days using a mask and gloves dumping the peel into the skip. In retrospect this was probably quite a stupid thing to do but chemical stripping had been an expensive failure and I was pressed for money and time. Perhaps I've done myself some damage, but I've no real way of knowing and as I doubt there's much I can do about it I've resolved to remain in blissful ignorance.

If you have really flaking surfaces then I would consider using mechanical methods of paint removal without heat (scrapers, old chisels etc.) using a good mask (not a paper dust mask) followed by careful and thorough clean up with a vacuum cleaner (binning the bag after use). Chemical weapons may also be applied, my experience with old paint wasn't encouraging but others swear by them.

In terms of the danger to your unborn and new born child I know it's natural to be protective but as long as the paint isn't coming off in big powdery lumps and your partner and child aren't ingesting it in huge amounts I doubt they will be in any danger if you decide to over paint. You have to temper your protective instinct with the fact that generations of us grew up in houses filled with lead painted surfaces and while it clearly wasn't a health benefit, most people managed to achieve adulthood without lead poisoning.

 

[Jellyfire]

Any advice would be very gratefully received.

Once that baby arrives you will have no time/energy/money to do most of the jobs on the list so prioritise and work on the house now while you still can!

Ah if only Id been given that advice two years ago! I now get about a 20 mins a week window of opportunity to do anything dusty/loud/disruptive. The amount of times I've got dust sheets down and changed into working gear on an evening, then dropped a metal chisel or suchlike onto a concrete floor, to hear the metallic clink closely followed by the cry of a waking baby upstairs, and then dutifully packed everything away again knowing it would be futile to carry on working....

 

[plasticpigeon]

Thanks again for all the replies. I am now thinking that since my place is only a modest Edwardian terrace, I may just junk all the architrave and buy new stuff that is as close as I can find. Some is missing anyway and some (around a sash window) is so broken up it needs replacing so this could be an opportunity to get it all to match. If I commit another cardinal sin and get the doors dipped, that only leaves window frames door linings and skirtings to strip which seems much more manageable!!! Is junking old architrave a disaster? I would have said so before, but my priorities are changing now.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I don't see it as the end of the world to scrap the old architrave, if it's in a poor state - not a choice I'd make though I do have to confess that during my paint stripping mania I pulled one lot of plain architrave off, burnt it, and fixed on more ornate architrave, in plastic, complete with pediment and acroterion.

When English Heritage came round to assess the house for listing the young academic doctor said "oh, it's a shame that when they added this room in the 30s they decided to go for this ornate architrave, as it doesn't match the rest of the house - but you can sort of see why they did" I didn't enlighten her, but it's on the jobs list to put a plain architrave back.

Anyway, don't underestimate the stripping of all window frames and door frames, skirtings and other bits. It will take you months or years. Once the child's born you won't do it. Give up the plan, have a beer in the sunshine while you can!

 

[plasticpigeon]

That is what my sister tells me. Enjoy the free time while I can!!!!