Lead lined wooden gutters

[vanhelgan]

I believe that our guttering is lead lined timber. We have had ongoing problems with leaks at a point on the front of the house. It's been cleaned out several times and we've been told that it looks fine although the tradesmen who have done this have acknowledged they are not particularly familiar with this type of guttering. Had a roofer go up in the spring to replace a slate and asked him to check it. He said he did see a problem and patched and welded it with a new piece of lead. Seemed better for a while but as the rains have picked up over the last month or so water is now pouring down the front of the house again.

in the first part of December I started calling roofers to see if I could get it looked at again but no joy. Lots of "I'll call you back when I'm home to arrange a time" but no-one seeems interested in coming to look at it. I'm not sure if it's a particularly unusual or specialist field?

My daughter has just told us that she had water coming in around her (one year old!) window last week (right below the problem point) so we're deperate to get this properly looked at and the root problem found/remedied.

Can anyone reccomend anyone in the North West for this type of work?

Thanks in advance

 

[Feltwell]

Lead lined gutters are unusual - one other person on here has them I believe.

We replaced our roof and one job involved some lead soldering. We had a good team of roofers but the younger ones didn't want to know this job, deferring instead to an older roofer to do it - and as he said, "I'm 65 now and one of them needs to bl@@dy learn how to do it, I won't be here much longer".

I think I'd start with speaking to local roofing merchants, especially independent ones, and ask if they've got any customers who do a lot of lead work. Also, Google the "Lead Sheet Association" - they are an industry body and do lots of training in leadwork, they may be able to offer a suggestion. It's more than just knowing how to solder lead, on a long run of guttering I would imagine that not putting some kind of expansion joint in would cause problems.

It's not a great time of year to be repairing lead gutters, I presume they need to be bone dry to do a good repair. Have you considered doing a temporary repair if you've got real problems right now? You could put a lead patch over the problem area, sealing it down with this stuff:-

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Adh.../Lead+Sheet+Sealant+310+ml/d180/sd2350/p55908

Or, if you can get it dry a bit of flashband will last until spring (I'd put primer on first - it'll help it stick in this cold damp weather):-

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;j...mZs7zrTLGJqLSs!1173908969?fh_search=flashband

These are not permanent repairs but will buy you some time.

 

[vanhelgan]

Thanks very much for the advice - much appreciated. I'm not sure we're up to repairing it ourselves - temporarily or otherwise. A particular concern is that I'm not sure that the primary problem is where the visible leak is. I suspect it may be tracking along and, as I say, people who have taken a look have seen no obvious problem.

Really we need to get someone who knows what they are doing to go and look at the full length thoroughly. Hadn't really thought of the timing for a full repair but it makes sense that it's probably not ideal right now. A temporary solution followed by full prepair in the spring would be fine though! Will try contacting builders merrchants as you suggest.

 

[Feltwell]

Will try contacting builders merrchants as you suggest.

Don't go for general builders merchants - go for roofing merchants, they only deal in roofing materials so will know the local roofers much better. Put "roofing materials" in Yell.com

 

[Keithj]

My experience with builders and stuff they aren't familiar with is that they will string you along for years, before finally admitting they don't have a clue and don't want to waste their time learning.

Find a local expert if you can. We're lucky - a Grade 1 Listed 12th Century local church means many specialist skills are available - at a price. Churchwardens tend to know all the right people.

Failing that, it's a skill to add to your DIY portfolio. Get up there when it's not raining cats and dogs, with a hosepipe, and do some investigation. Squirting a jet onto the tiles is often very revealing, as you aim the jet to different places to see what happens.

Identifying the problem area is the biggest part of fixing it. Once you know WHAT the problem is and WHERE, armchair expertise is usually available. I fixed our big leak at the front of the house (the builder having failed) by spotting the badly-cut join in the gutter that was deforming the joint, trimming it, and adding a goodly quantity of sealant as well as the correct snap-on rubber joining gusset.

I have a 2kW electric soldering iron, bought to build large aerials in rural Germany. It is wonderful with lead stuff. I've not used it on the house (yet) but the aerials are very healthy!

 

[Lime]

The leak in the lead may be anywhere within the wooden gutter.
The wooden gutter will prevent leaking out directly so the water will flow along under the lead until it finds an opening in the wood.
It isn't difficult to repair but the lead and wood must be dry to do it.
The hole/slit/crack must be found and cleaned by scrapping the dirt and lead oxide off the shiny metal.
The area is then painted with a strong flux, heated and a soft solder applied while under heat.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I sympathise Vanhelgen! We also have lead lined chestnut gutters; the previous owner left us with full welding gear and the cheery instruction that we'd better learn how to use it. Rather disrespectfully Chris turned the gear into a scary ghost ( propping the visor with a broom handle and dressing it in old overalls). Welding ghost lived in our hallway for a while until I drove him to the dump.
Not very helpful, sorry, ours is leaky and needs leaves clearing constantly. If/ when you resolve this please post back!

 

[Flyfisher]

I've no experience of lead-lined gutters but I can certainly second keithj's suggestion about getting onto the roof with a hosepipe (or in the pouring rain) and hae a look at what's really happening. I've fixed a number of problems really easily (albeit with standard guttering) by simply adjusting or augmenting bits of lead flashing to ensure that all the roof runoff is deposited into the guttering.

I've also seen first hand how leadwork can split due to constant expansion/contraction where insufficent care has been taken to allow for such things. This is relatively easy in flashings and roof gulleys etc where sections of lead can be simply overlayed, but I'm not sure how it is achieved with a large area of flat lead where expansion joints must be made completely waterproof.

Purists may wish to stop reading now but I wonder if the constant cost of maintenance and repairs would make it more attractive to install standard guttering inside the existing lead-lined gutters? Depending on the existing guttering design, the 'inside' guttering would probably be completely invisible, but provide a much lower-maintenance solution. Just a thought.

 

[JoceAndChris]

It's an interesting idea, I suspect it might be highly visible on this building though.

 

[Feltwell]

attractive to install standard guttering inside the existing lead-lined gutters? Depending on the existing guttering design, the 'inside' guttering would probably be completely invisible, but provide a much lower-maintenance solution. Just a thought.

And a good one I'd say. I think there are several good reasons why wooden lead-lined guttering is rare! For a 2-storey or greater house with a high roofline (unlike Joce's), if done carefully this idea could both work well & be invisible from ground level.

Keith's point about churches is also a good one if repairing the lead is the way you want to go - could well be worth asking your local church warden, most church roofs seem to involve substantial amounts of lead and there must be certain contractors that are well-known locally in ecclesiastical circles for maintenance work.

Whilst all the points about getting up there with a hosepipe are very valid, it sounds like for this poster DIY is not an option - which there is no shame in, not everyone is up for clambering about on ladders at roof level !

 

[Flyfisher]

I was assuming that modern guttering might lie within the lead-lined guttering and thus be invisible even when viewing from a level position, but if that's not the case then I'd readily agree it wouldn't be a good solution.

Fair point about clambering around on ladders, though many people commonly do this to clear leaves from gutters anyway and if it's safe enough for that then it shoudl be safe enough to go up with a hose. There's no need to actually clamber onto the roof to watch how the water runoff behaves. But I concede it's a far easier and safer activity when scaffolding happens to be in already in place.

 

[robgil]

What kind of downpipes do you use with this type of guttering?

 

[Keithj]

Whilst all the points about getting up there with a hosepipe are very valid, it sounds like for this poster DIY is not an option - which there is no shame in, not everyone is up for clambering about on ladders at roof level !

Absolutely true, but...

My missus (the redoubtable 'M') doesn't go up ladders, or even stand on stepladders, but she proved very efficacious with the garden hose in identifying the various problems with our gutters. She just walked around, squirting the tiles, and observing where the water went astray. The faults were identified quite precisely.

Had I not been happy to go up a ladder to our (low) eaves to deal with the problem, then a builder would have been brought in (and supervised closely). As far as I know, the problems are all solved (for now).

 

[Feltwell]

All depends on the house really. I too have been out with the hosepipe in the past, but to spray water on the roof here from a domestic hosepipe definitely requires ladders & a head for heights!

 

[vanhelgan]

Many thanks for all the input! I think we may be able to spray a hose up there to see if it gives us any more info, but really it would need to be observed from above as well as below, as we can see where it comes through, but (as was suggested above) I have a suspision it may be tracking along the wood/between the wood and the lead.

Neither of us is particularly great with heights unfortunatly (and I have the fact that I'm 36 weeks pregnant as a good excuse also!) so whilst on the ground DIY/stepladders are fine roofs and gutters are a different matter!

Thanks again - will keep you posted

 

[FamilyWiggs]

(and I have the fact that I'm 36 weeks pregnant as a good excuse also!) so whilst on the ground DIY/stepladders are fine roofs and gutters are a different matter

Am I the only bloke on here who can't see why this is a problem? You've got another 4 weeks to go haven't you? 8) 8) 8)