LBC confusion

[johnandrew]

Dear All

A grade II mill development has applied for planning permission to divide one large apartment into two. On the application it is stated that work has already started. Is it allowed to start work before they have planning permission? Or maybe they have LBC but now need planning permission? Are the two different and does LBC normally come before plannig permission?



Also (on a point of procedure):

The same developer has an LBC application to make alterations to the facade and roof of the mill. The application documents contain only drawings of the propsed work and not how the buildings now looks so it is difficult to tell what changes are being planned. The LBC application check-list on the local authority website clearly states that there should be existing and proposed elevations/plans submitted. And our UDP mentions something similar. Dispite this the application has been validated and is awaiting a decision.

How can anyone judge what the effect might be without existing and proposed drawing (or by visiting the site)?

John

 

[Pford75]

A grade II mill development has applied for planning permission to divide one large apartment into two. On the application it is stated that work has already started. Is it allowed to start work before they have planning permission?

No, but in many cases, basic works are started by developers. In the case of planning, they could be forced to 'undo' the work if consent is refused. In the case of LBC, they could face prosecution (although for minor works this is rare and unlikely). Really depends what they have done and whether it is planning permission or LBC they are seeking (perhaps both).

Are the two different and does LBC normally come before plannig permission?

They are different. Since the property is listed, the local Conservation Officer will determine which alterations require formal LBC (note that they may agree some changes as 'no consent required', but it is difficult to comment or for you to assess without details of what work has been done and what conversations have taken place with the CO. All changes to a listed building will either require LBC or to be acknowledged as 'no consent required' by the CO (those that fall into the later category are a bit messy since there is rarely an official paper trail).

Not all changes will require planning permission (for example, removal of partition walls will most probably not require planning permission...but would certainly need LBC). I'm not aware of any specific order that they should be applied for...many councils handle the two simultaneously. For example, when I reconstructed a listed wall, I needed both LBC and planning approval and both were handled at the same time (but I suppose that it is possible to separate the two)

On your procedural point, it may be worth raising this question with the local authority - if you already have done so, what was their response? I would guess however, that the check-list you refer to is guidance only and that the planning authority will respond that they are not required in every case.

From your post, it would seem that you are opposed to the development? If so, it is worth speaking with the Conservation Officer and getting his/her opinion before proceeding further....understanding their view/position would be very helpful if you wish to object.

 

[Penners]

johnandrew - just a PS to Pford75's comprehensive explanation: remember that like-for-like repairs to a listed building don't require any consents. Is it possible that the developer can argue that his works so far have been essential repairs to ensure the stability of the building?

 

[johnandrew]

Thanks for the detailed response, Pford75. I will ask the relevant person at the LA.

And thanks, Penners, for your PS.

I am not against the development - it's nice to see the old mill being brought back into use. (There are other planning issues related to local infrastructure and planning creep but I'll not discuss those here.)

My interest is in deciding on whether I wanted to comment on the changes they wish to make. These changes include the addition of juliet balconies to the front of the building and moving and installing more rooflights I wanted to be able to see a drawing of the existing elevation and roof lights to compare with their proposed alterations.

Regards

John