Large muddy hole

[thiambal]

We have a bit of a problem with musty smells from under the floorboards in the lounge. Coincidently (or not) the level of the garden outside is up to the level of the air brick.

So - I have dug out the front garden (only six foot by eight foot wide) so that it is now 5 inches below the air brick - so about 7 inches below the interior floor level. All good.............

.....but now I have a large muddy hole for a front garden. The plan of the current Mrs C is to plant bushes along the front wall (something prickly to prevent the local nurks from sitting on our wall) But the still leaves 5 foot of mud runing up to the front of the house.

Any suggestions about the best way to proceed? - OK, I know this isn't gardener's questiontime - or at least what to avoid - bearing in mind previous (hopefully) existence of musty smells.

What would victorians have done?

 

[middi]

You could buid a dwarf wall about one foot away from the house wall and backfill the cavity with shingle up to six inches below floor level or air brick.

Reinstate some top soil behind the dwarf wall on the garden side and plant what you like. It will work very well especially if you can create some drainage for exessive surface water.

As to people sitting on the wall, you could plant and look after a row of stinking nettles along it :wink:

 

[thiambal]

Cor, crikey, wall building eh!

Middi that sounds like a professional and effective way of going about things. (drainage would be more of a problem, nowhere to drain too really).

I have currently got the soil level down to 7 inches below floor level (about 5 inches below bottom of air brick) across the whole garden. Wall building and shingle filling would mean more digging, foundation laying (??) and me learning how to build a wall.

Am I ok just to leave the garden and the new lower level of 7 inches below the floor? Or do I need to dig even deeper down along the house wall (not sure how deep the foundations are (assuming there are any).

I was thinking maybe laying some turf or shingle across the current mud and inch or so deep (dropping the current level down another inch to accomodate it and to maintain the gap under the airbrick if necessary).
Mrs C would really like to plant some thing along the house wall (hopefully something that does not need watering).

Would there be a problem with this? Any advice gratefully received!

 

[middi]

The reason why I mentioned a dwarf wall was because of your concern about soil and mud being washed against the house.

If you are still concerned about this you could always obtain old railway sleepers and lay them down instead of getting confused about putting one brick on top of another with a bit of " muck " in between. Bark chips could be used on the garden bit, plant suitable plants according to type of soil and the bark will act as a mulch, at the same time keeps the weeds down.
It depends on personal taste but I thing it may look better on period garden than shingle.

You do not need any "footings" for a very low retaining wall anyway.

If the house walls does not suffer from any damp problems there is no need to worry or make deeper trenches with shingle etc.., just keep the ground level below the air brick.

If you plant tight against the house walls, it may look pretty but with time the shrubs or bulbs grow, the soil level eventually gets raised, some of the air circulation gets blocked across the air bricks and you will be back to square one, not to mention the roots working their way into the brickwork below soil level..

Whatever you do, keep the Mrs happy even if it means tarmacking a bit of garden. You live longer.

 

[Silas]

The plan of the current Mrs C is to plant bushes along the front wall (something prickly to prevent the local nurks from sitting on our wall)

Hawthorn (Quick thorn) or Berberis or both would be a good choice as a hedge to deter the nurks, and the birds would love the berries and the prickly protection from the local moggies. I would go with railway sleepers to retain the soil as Middi suggests.

 

[arl]

i agree with the bark chippings or if you fancy something a bit prettier but that dosnt need mowing how about a thyme lawn. its can stand occasional traffic, smells great and will turn a pretty lilac colour when it flowers.
or if its very shady you can use moss instead

 

[thiambal]

Cheers for the Alan Titchmarsh like advice Silas - I shall commend the ideas to the present Mrs C.

I think my wording on the original post was a bit misleading - no actual earth to retain - the earth is now level across the garden (as it was before) I have just dropped the level by about 6 inches right across the garden to remove earth from against the house wall (go knows where it has all come from - but it was not there 100 years ago).

The problem we had was a musty damp smell in the lounge when the door was closed for any period. There had been a previous damp problem in the room which has been treated (not by me) with injection damp-proofing - but this was injection two courses about the air brick and above the internal floor level. This led to rot in the floor joists and a few floor boards which were replaced by the previous owner. However, we are still left with the smell - so I have lowered the earth level (as recommended in survey) in a bid to solve the problem.

I just wanted to check with those who know more than me whether there is anything I should or shouldn't do with my new patch of mud in terms of covering it or planting things. I have noted Middi comments about planting things close to the house.

All the lowering of the garden has left me with a concrete path to the front door that now looks ridiculously high (it was always too high but six inches too much earth in the garden hid it) I suspect some cretin hs laid it over the original quarry tile path :evil: I don't suppose I will ever get them out in one piece.

 

[thiambal]

i agree with the bark chippings or if you fancy something a bit prettier but that dosnt need mowing how about a thyme lawn. its can stand occasional traffic, smells great and will turn a pretty lilac colour when it flowers.
or if its very shady you can use moss instead

I am inclined to agree about bark chippings - however, I live 400 yards from the sea with a shingle beach - so if we are supposed to source local materials :wink:

Thyme lawn sounds interesting - I shall get Mrs C to investigate

 

[Penners]

Thiambal - I'm a little bit worried about the idea that just clearing one air brick will resolve the musty smell. I'm sure that your lowering of the ground level will have a beneficial effect, but for the under-floor ventilation to be really effective, there should be a cross-flow of air.

Is it possible for you to create some form of ventilation on the opposite side of the room, too?

Regardless of what you end up doing with the front garden, I would keep a close eye (perhaps that should be nose) on the musty smell situation. Unless you are absolutely certain that it's gone, you may have to investigate further by lifting some boards. I don't want to be alarmist, but if something like dry rot is at work, you simply can't afford to ignore it.

Back to the mud - if you've removed some 5-6 inches of soil, then I suspect you may have got rid of most of your topsoil, leaving the subsoil exposed - hence the mud. I reckon you might do well to take Middi's advice, and construct some sort of 6-inch-high barrier (wall, sleepers or whatever) a foot or so from the house wall, and then put back a load of topsoil on the side away from the house. This will help you to grow shrubs, grass, etc. and should make it a lot less muddy. You could fill the trench against the house with gravel, but first you'll need to construct a box of some sort around the air brick to stop it becoming submerged again.

 

[thiambal]

Alas, there is no way of creating an air flow on the other side of the room as the room is mostly self contained with internal supporting walls - although I think there are some gaps through to the rear rooms and there is an air brick at the back of the house (there are two at the front)

There was previously rot in floor of this room. However, sometime in the last two years the floor and joists were removed and replaced with treated timber - so I am hoping it is not that. I am little reluctant to lift floor boards as they are all nice and new and with no joins along their length - but I can try - what would I be looking for in terms of dry rot?

As for the mud situation - I have only lowered the garden to its original level - which I have judged by looking at surrounding houses. I need also to remove the concrete path at some stage as it is built up higher than the original path and it covering the air brick space that was originally below the front door step. If I built a retaining wall and put soil back the front garden would end up be higher than the path.

I do need however to ensure that the air brick are not blocked. Is there any easy way of doing this - and one that preferably does not involve lifting the internal floor boards ?

 

[Moo]

Poking a thin rod through the holes?


"I am little reluctant to lift floor boards as they are all nice and new and with no joins along their length"

Which should be a salutary lesson for anyone who will be laying a new floor: plan it so that lifting boards will be possible without causing any damage. Access to the space under the floor is as necessary (though one hopes not so frequent) as access to the roof space.

 

[thiambal]

Thanks Moo! I shall give them a thorough rodding later on.

Quite right about the floor boards - It was not me who laid them - he also nailed them down with nails with a 8mm wide round head on them so they cannot be sanded and oiled - will have to be carpeted. :evil:

 

[Penners]

There was previously rot in floor of this room. However, sometime in the last two years the floor and joists were removed and replaced with treated timber - so I am hoping it is not that.

Once again I feel like Job's comforter, but I wouldn't drop your guard on the dry rot front. The fact that it has been treated once can perhaps be regarded as a warning that it could recur, if the treatment wasn't 100% effective. I don't think it would reinfect tanalised (or similar) wood, but if there were some old timbers left under there...

As to identification, have a look at this pdf:
http://www.defence-estates.mod.uk/p...istoric_buildings/PDF_8111/Technical 8 02.pdf

I can understand your reluctance to lift your nice new floorboards, and I'm not urging you to do it right away, but if the damp smell doesn't disappear, you may have no choice.

 

[Craig]

What is a Nurk?

 

[kim]

hi thiamble,

refering to your question at the start,i would suggest that you dig a fairly small soakaway in the middle of the garden and then turf or grass seed.
this will take all the exsses water and hoefully dry the garden out.

kim

 

[Penners]

What is a Nurk?

I think we need a little bit of context there, Craig. Is this a general philosophical question, or did you have something specific in mind?

 

[juleafield]

Can some one tell me how to post a message to the Agony Uncle, I keep getting an error message and this website doesn't have any help or number to call to find out what the problem is. Also get an error message when filling in the feed back form. Message says " Sorry ..... Cant run from here " . Badly need advise on damp wall and need to post this message to the Agony Uncle to get some expert advise. Builder coming in 2 days and isn't sure what route to take with this problem. Thanks

Julea

 

[worms]

I must admit I hadn't come across the term nurk before, but the original context made it quite clear!

Thiambal had said:

something prickly to prevent the local nurks from sitting on our wall

and

What would victorians have done?

I suspect the range of Victorian sanctions against "nurks" would have been extensive, interesting, and far more effective than anything we use today!

Suggestions on a post card to John Reid...

 

[Nemesis]

Julea - I would suggest posting the problem on this forum may be the most rapid manner in which to gain responses.

 

[thiambal]

Penners - thanks for the excellent info on dry rot (and other rots for that matter) - I think you are right - I will lift a couple of the small boards beside the chimney breast which should come up without cutting and get my head and a torch firmly under there!

As for a nurk - this is I beleive a Ronnie Barker'ism - used in Porridge often with the addition of extra contextual information e.g. 'anarchist-nurk, 'charmless-nurk' etc. I think perhaps an invented term of abuse used to save the feelings of Mary Whitehouse from anything more abusive.

In this case they are 'local nurks' and I suspect the victorian solution would have been either transpotation to the colonies or an elephant gun.