Knockdown or Renovate?

[mattice]

:lol: I thought a provocative headline might get some views

For the first couple of months as the porch filled with water each time it rained, I was close to knocking down and rebuilding. Removing the plants from the side of the porch and a drain for the gutters later, and it's nice and dry.

I'm now set on renovation. The concrete floor is a little close to ground level and laid on a membrane. Upon this is a single skin brick course and a wooden frame which appears to be sound. All of the cladding, door and window frames are shot, plaster board on the inside blown. The roof needs re-felting and some flashing, I've got piles of tiles in the garden.

I've been keeping my eyes peeled for ideas but I'm really struggling. I've got a good local supplier of green oak who will also make windows and doors, but I can't quite picture this i.e. shiplap, feather edge, waney edge, painted, stained, untreated... Mrs Mattice would like a functional porch to store coats and shoes in that on the outside will fit with whatever windows we put in in the very distant future.... look out for my post in 5-10 years time.

Anyway, enough waffling, here are some pics. Any ideas gratefully received, I'm on a three line whip to complete before next winter as apparently the slate floors are a pain to clean!

 

[DJH]

We needed a some sort of porch to keep the bad weather from blasting into the house every time we opened the door. It's not entirely in keeping with an old farmhouse but I console myself by thinking that it is, in effect, a temporary structure and could be taken away leaving just a few fixing holes and a chase where the flashing is fitted.

The frame is made from 4 x 2 studwork on a raft of concrete over a DPM. My only regret is that I didn't put any insulation under this concrete as the floor now has a tendency to 'heave' or condense in certain conditions. Below the windows and hanging slates the wall is faced with 25 mm ply, a moisture stop and then stainless steel mesh rendered with that 'one coat' wonder cement stuff. I forget the name of it now.

The pitch of the roof is very shallow but, with two layers of breather felt underneath the slates, we've had no ingress of water yet! We've used asbestos cement types slates rather than match the natural slate on the house to show that the porch is subservient to the house and is what it is. A modern accretion. The Velux roof light is incongruous but as I had one left over and we are hard up for daylight in the entrance lobby, in it went.



Hmm. I should finish the moulding around the pane of glass and paint it...

Doug

 

[Zebra]

Hmm, it's not the most attractive porch mattice... Not terrible but somehow it just doesn't quite suit the house. The brickwork is different for one thing. What era is the house, and when was the porch built?
It must certainly be very cold too, being only single skin. I take it you have another front door inside? And I see what you mean that it's very close to the ground.
I'm not sure that green oak would suit the house either though would it?

 

[plasticpigeon]

I think porches are pretty difficult, and don't often look good. Having said that I think Doug's porch looks quite charming.

If I were in your shoes though, I'd be tempted to knock it down and start again. The only ones I have seen that I like ore ones that look lightweight and are not too imposing. If the bricks come up further than 2 or 3 feet, I think they looks too heavy. I also think the doors on the front of porches spoil them a bit, but I realise they have to be functional too. I think this kind of thing looks nice. I think if the open areas were glazed it would still look nice and not too much of a heavy object on the front of the house. I don't suppose the woodwork would have to be as fancy either. Perhaps a glazed door would be nice too if it is to be more than a storm porch. Just my opinion though.

 

[mattice]

The brickwork is different for one thing. What era is the house, and when was the porch built?

Thanks Zebra - one vote for knock down - The brickwork not matching on the porch pales into insignificance - see my previous post which gives a bit more background! There is an internal door, which is half glazed and essential to let light in. I think you are right about the oak.

Doug - many thanks for the picture and construction guide, it's exactly what I need for inspiration!

If I were in your shoes though, I'd be tempted to knock it down and start again.

Thanks plasticpigeon - two votes! A functional porch is essential, it's around 2.4m wide and 2.2m deep. Thanks for the porch clip, I'll add it to the scrap book!


I'll keep you posted on how ideas progress.

M

 

[Zebra]

I'm not necessarily saying knock down. I can't see any details on your other post about the porch, it just shows how this is perhaps the least of your worries!
If you were to knock it down and rebuild, then I'm guessing you still have the issue with ground levels. It looks like your internal ground level is no higher than outside. You could try for a bettter match of the brick, and you could improve things thermally. However, if your internal door is good thermally and you only want this as a place to kick off the wellies, if you rendered the brickwork perhaps or even clad it (I'm not necessarily suggesting these things, just trying to kick around ideas), replaced the window with something matching, then it could be salvageable, and would save you the work. When was it built anyway, this porch?

 

[Nigel Watts]

If you are going to keep it I suggest you paint all the weatherboarding and window frames a similar dark colour to your other windows and paint/replace the rainwater goods with dark ones. The mock Georgian front door should go too.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Plastic pigeon's porch is attractive, I like that style very much, but not at all in keeping with mattice's house. It's a style that Osbert Lancaster dubbed "Stockbroker Tudor " and it mushroomed in suburban fringes in the 20s/30s.

I'd also surmise that mattice has got a 20s/30s porch on his late 18th C house and very ill at ease it looks too. I'm sure no porch should be there at all. What happens round the other side of the property?

Our house is just a bit later than this one and has a front that isn't designed to be entered (thwere was a discreet entrance ion the left side), but the back has the fanciful porch

It's a villa with commanding views so I think the architects felt it was OK to go a bit over the top with that castellated porch.

With yours I think I'd be looking to knock it down and trying to return the building to how it looked before. Failing that, I'd lime render the whole masonry of both sides and paint it cream. Then I'd have one of these.

http://www.fineiron.co.uk/balconies_verandas_canopies.html

That would create a uniform and very polite 18th C appearance overall

 

[DJH]

I've put lead on the roof of canopies like those more than once Joce. It's not easy work but they look well when done... where are those photos???

Doug

 

[Owain]

The non-matching brickwork can be concealed by taking the cladding down closer to ground level.

Would dark stained wood to match the house be oppressive?

Change the fake Georgian door to something suitable.

Forget plasterboard for porches - it's completely unsuitable. Timber cladding inside as well as out.

It may not turn out a work of art but it shoudln't be hideous.

 

[Lime]

With respect, I think the whole porch looks a mess mattice .
The bricks are totally wrong and scream "common brick" and cement to me.
Halfway up its wooden. Why? Did they run out of bricks?
Then there is the roof. What is that white bit for? It looks as if has been taken straight off a chapel of rest.
However the real horror to my eye is the wall tie half covered by the roof. How could they!?
And how do you stop water getting in there? (I don't think you can.)
But even the foundations look bad.
Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!

That is another vote to knock down and rebuild just in case it wasn't very clear.

 

[Feltwell]

My vote would be to knock it down - sorry! Whatever you do with it I don't think it will look right, although I concede that it could be made to look better than it does now. However, knocking it down completely and starting again would probably be quicker & easier.

The amount of useable space in that porch must be minimal. Can you not come up with an alternative for the shoes & coats? Does that door have to be your "usual" entrance & exit door? The house would look so much better with no porch at all there.

http://www.fineiron.co.uk/balconies_verandas_canopies.html

Ooo - a version of that one in the main picture would look very good on the back of Feltwell Towers. I dread to think how much it costs though!
A much larger and original version is on the side of Sunnycroft, a National Trust property just round the corner from Feltwell Towers - in fact it's the same age as my place and similar in some ways, just much, much larger & grander! It was no doubt what the original builders of my house would have been aspiring to.

 

[Penners]

Plastic pigeon's porch is attractive, I like that style very much, but not at all in keeping with mattice's house. It's a style that Osbert Lancaster dubbed "Stockbroker Tudor " and it mushroomed in suburban fringes in the 20s/30s.

Hear, hear (waving my order paper)! That would be quite unsuitable for this vernacular red brick cottage of indeterminate age.

Mattice, I'm assuming that you wouldn't want to dispense with the porch altogether.

As the brickwork of the porch is single-skin, I'm another vote for knocking it down and starting again, with decent foundations. If you're able to do so within your permitted development rights, this would allow you to make it a wee bit larger - enough to incorporate a cavity wall (masonry, not studwork/plasterboard). The rest of the house may not have this feature, but that's no reason to eschew its benefits for this porch. I would build it in a red brick in a colour and bond that matches the rest of the building as much as possible, with a simple tiled roof. I would get rid of those windows with their overstated glazing bars and install frames that echo the rest of the building, with the emphasis on the vertical. Assuming this is the front aspect and main entrance to the house, I would also put the door in the front gable wall, rather than on the side of the porch.

I would take the opportunity to raise the floor level of the porch a bit, even if this means a step down into the main building. As you intend to use the porch for wet coats and boots, I would install an extractor fan controlled by a humidistat.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Porches added to houses that did not originally have them often look wrong if you try too hard to blend them in. If it was my house and I was building a new porch I think I would opt for something contemporary, metal and glass perhaps, with a flat lead overhead roof?

 

[Penners]

Porches added to houses that did not originally have them often look wrong if you try too hard to blend them in. If it was my house and I was building a new porch I think I would opt for something contemporary, metal and glass perhaps, with a flat lead overhead roof?

Well, I think you have a point, Nigel. There's a strong argument for the design of the new porch to reflect the period in which it is added to the house. However, the cost implications of your suggestion are not insignificant. There are also aesthetics and practicalities to be considered, such as where wet coats, wellies, etc. are to be accommodated in a small glass-and-steel structure.

 

[Flyfisher]

I very much like that glass canopy on Feltwell's Sunncroft House photo. Is there a name for such a construction, apart from 'glass canopy'?

How lovely to be able to sit outside during the warmer months on proper upholstered comfy chairs and not have to worry about the inevitable rain showers.

I'd also bet it does wonders for damp control around the base of the walls.

 

[Owain]

I very much like that glass canopy on Feltwell's Sunncroft House photo. Is there a name for such a construction, apart from 'glass canopy'?

Verandah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verandah

I think the canopy at Sunnycroft is neither original nor flattering and it looks to me like they had a visit from a high pressure cast-iron glazing salesman with a special offer if they signed that day. If it was post-1888 they may even have got a free Parker pen.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Interesting arguments and ideas- what a conundrum! Good luck mattice.

I've put lead on the roof of canopies like those more than once Joce. It's not easy work but they look well when done... where are those photos???

Doug

It must be very expensive and fiddly work I'd have thought. I'd absolutely love one on the side if we don't get planning permission and LBC for extension - I'm convinced a verandah was originally on the North side as you can see the mark the pagoda shaped roof left.

 

[DJH]

A canopy I did that ran the length of the house was about £12k but I did the carpentry as well for that and the cast iron pillars were in position anyway. The curved glass was very expensive and a worry dressing the adjoining lead sheets against them. That job was back in the days when lead was about 60p per kg against £2.20 odd per kg nowadays.

Doug

 

[JoceAndChris]

Blimey, you'd need deep pockets then for a decent sized one.