Keim paint

[Keithj]

I'd never heard of it, but it's been suggested in place of limewash on the church. Is it appropriate for that purpose?

I'm ultra-cautious about using the right materials, having spent an awful lot of money repairing the results of the wrong stuff (concrete) on this house.

 

[Flyfisher]

I assume you're referring to their silicate paints. A traditional, breathable and long-lasting alternative to limewash.
Limewash 3-5 years, silicate paints 20+ years.

http://www.mikewye.co.uk/Article_Natural_Painting_and_Decorating.htm

http://www.keimpaints.co.uk/about_us/comparison_of_keim_mineral_paints_and_limewash/

http://www.projectbook.co.uk/article_16.html

 

[biffvernon]

The thing to remember with silicate paints is that the are permanent, irreversible. If that's what you want, then fine, but think before putting on to a conservation-sensitive building where the principle of reversibility is important.

 

[MatthewC]

The thing to remember with silicate paints is that the are permanent, irreversible. If that's what you want, then fine, but think before putting on to a conservation-sensitive building where the principle of reversibility is important.

And if it's a C of E church, does the Diocesan Advisory Committee agree (even if it's unlisted)? They are usually very interested in specifying precisely what you can and can't do (although they forgot here to specify that the new limecrete floor must not be sealed).

 

[Flyfisher]

The thing to remember with silicate paints is that the are permanent, irreversible. If that's what you want, then fine, but think before putting on to a conservation-sensitive building where the principle of reversibility is important.

That's an interesting point but is it strictly true? Even if the paint cannot be removed from lime render, the render itself could be removed and replaced. But why would anyone want to remove silicate paint (assuming it has been used appropriately in the first place)? Isn't the point of conservation to preserve and protect buildings? How many historic buildings have been lost or damaged because of poor maintenance due to high costs? Limewash itself might be cheap but the labour and scaffolding that goes with it every 3-5 years is most certainly not!

 

[biffvernon]

Each case must be looked at on its own merits, but the starting point for conservation has to be to conserve the existing fabric and doing something that irreversibly changes it (such as altering the chemistry of the surface layers by impregnating with silicates) is not the same as conservation.

I'm not saying that use of silicate paint is a bad thing. On the contrary, it can be the solution to a tricky problem, and may be the appropriate material. But there has to be a justifiable reason to depart from the principles of conservation best practice. The point about reversible actions is that they can be reversed when you find you've made a mistake.

 

[Flyfisher]

I certainly agree about taking each case on its own merits . . . which is why I'm not planning to conserve some of the existing fabric (i.e. cement render) on our house. Then, after replacing it with brand new lime render, what would be a good reason to use limewash instead of silicate paint?

 

[Keithj]

Thank you all for that. Much appreciated.

Yes, it's Grade 1 Listed. The inspecting architect is the one recommending Keim rather than limewash, so I don't expect problems with the DAC.

He told me this morning that much of the render above the sill level is concrete rather than lime, and that Keim will adhere to that far better than limewash. Under the concrete is stone and rubble; his advice is to leave it all as-is and paint it.

The inside is lime, and someone painted that about ten years ago. It's flaking badly and will have to come off. That's for Phase 2, after we've sorted the roof and the exterior.

 

[andrew gayton]

I certainly agree about taking each case on its own merits . . . which is why I'm not planning to conserve some of the existing fabric (i.e. cement render) on our house. Then, after replacing it with brand new lime render, what would be a good reason to use limewash instead of silicate paint?

A walk around Lavenham will answer that question.

 

[Flyfisher]

If money was no object then I'd agree. How much does it cost to limewash Lavenham's Guildhall every 3-4 years?

 

[andrew gayton]

That often?

the limewash has been on my house - which is flint and brick (not as porous as render) - for about 7 years now. I made up a batch of limewash for approx £15 and did it off a ladder. I thought about silicate paint for the reasons stated above but opted for limewash and I would again unless I was in a massive house with restricted access dictating the use of scaffold/traffic lights.

Your house is the ideal candidate for limewashing. Bland paint would knock the corners off it.

 

[garnett]

Hello

You need to think very carefully before using this product. we have had a couple of very high profile failures down here in Devon where it has fallen off.

Interestingly one building was traditional lime and the other was and art deco cement render. I am not suggesting that this is the fault of the product, but the building needs very careful preperation in complete accordance with the manufacturer's specification.

It has made me very nervous about using it.

Has anyone had any recent experiance?

Garnett

 

[Keithj]

Thank you. Useful information.
I will challenge our architect some more (and have a word with the DAC, to see if they have a view).

 

[Flyfisher]

Hello

You need to think very carefully before using this product. we have had a couple of very high profile failures down here in Devon where it has fallen off.

Interestingly one building was traditional lime and the other was and art deco cement render. I am not suggesting that this is the fault of the product, but the building needs very careful preperation in complete accordance with the manufacturer's specification.

It has made me very nervous about using it.

Has anyone had any recent experiance?

Garnett

Interesting. Was it the paint that failed or the render itself? As Biff explained, silicate paints bind with the substrate, so it's hard to see how the paint itself could fail, though easy to imagine render failing and falling off. Not enough firm information about these cases to judge though.

I'd be equally nervous without some good references because it's such an expensive job. Hmm - at least limewash has a well-proven track record.

 

[andrew gayton]

and cheap to make..................

 

[garnett]

Hello

In the case I had in mind, the contractor did not pressure wash the building before application.

In the end it got repainted with the best known exterior wall paint at B&Q. It is already a cement render so no issue about that and its stayed on.

Garnett