Joinery details - glazing bars inside or outside

[Craig]

Hello - I am just having some new joinery fitted to my Geo house.

The joiner has made a pair of doors with the glzing bars facing inwards, so that the glass is fitted from the outside. They say that this is correct. We had specified that they face outwards (for the doors), with the glass held in place by beads.

Is it just a question of security that leads one to put the solid face outwards?

Will the glazing leak if its just held in by beads rather than putty? The joiner would like to use silicone sealant but we have vetoed this.

Any help would be much appreciated as I meeting with them tomorrow to discuss this point in detail.

Thanks!
Craig

 

[biffvernon]

I don't think it makes much difference which way round the glazing bars are - it depends which side you want to look prettier.

If you only use beads then water can get in. The trouble with putty is that it may eventually crack in the extreme environment of a door subject to regular slamming. You might consider a double sided sticky foam glazing tape, available in rolls from places that make double glazing units. This has the added advantage when using valuable, fragile glass, in that the glass is suspended between cushions. Your joiner's idea of using silicone has some merit.

 

[Craig]

Thanks for your reply Biff. Presumably, before such materials, people just accepted the glass would crack if they werent careful?

May I also ask a quick question about softwood (a topic we touched on before). Would a 14mm glazing bar in a white softwood be too narrow to take a glazed panel some 20" square?

Many thanks
Craig

 

[biffvernon]

Bit hard to tell. It depends on the dimensions of the whole cross section. Are we talking dg units or just a single pane?

 

[Craig]

Single - We spec'd beeds about 14mm by 35mm deep, ovolo/gothic profile. No doubt they are lightweight but I hoped they were OK - joiners want to use c. 24mm which makes them seem quite clumsy.

I wished we had spec'd a redwood but by the time I became realy aware of the differences (following your emails) it was quite late in the process and its so hard to find a decent contractor in London you try to not be too annoying...

 

[biffvernon]

beeds about 14mm by 35mm deep,

You mean the glazing bars? The bits that separate panes of glass? Can't quite see how you get a bar that narrow if there's a rebate either side. If you mean the beads that hold the glass into its rebate I don't see what the 35mm dimension is. :?

 

[Craig]

Yes, that is the bit.

14 mm at its widest, ad reducing to a 5mm protrusion, giving (14mm-5mm/2) 4.5mm rebates for the glass to sit in.

I am guessing from your comment that you think thats too narrow?

The 35mm is the length of the main body (including the profied end but excluding the projection/rebated bit).

 

[biffvernon]

Well it's sounds more typical of a fine display cabinet that yer average front door. Just don't kick it too hard

 

[Craig]

I think that you may have just hit the nail on the head. Lets hope it wasnt set into my glazing bar though...

 

[phil]

Craig
Our 1803 house still has the original ( finer than your spec. ) glazing bars
on the windows and doors. Windows facing in with putty outside, doors
facing out with beads inside. Beads on the outside will tend to weather and rot if not regularly maintained. The pine used in those days was superior
to that generally used today.

As Biff points out doors are subject to more stress than windows and
also tend to expand/contract more with the seasons.

regards
Phil

 

[Penners]

I don't think it makes much difference which way round the glazing bars are - it depends which side you want to look prettier.

It takes a brave/foolish (delete as appropriate) man to disagree with Biff on matters of joinery, but I think the glazing bars should always be on the inside. The moulding on the glazing bar is usually designed to be more decorative than functional, and therefore may not be efficient in casting off water (it will usually have little flat on top). The putty (or glazing bead) fillet, on the other hand, is designed for this function, so should minimise any risk of water seepage into the glass/wood joint.

As Biff said, aesthetics also enter the equation, and people invariably want the glazing bar to look prettier from the inside.

 

[biffvernon]

You're right with regard to windows, Penners, but we're talking about a door here where the glass is held in with a wooden bead rather than putty. The putty, if it is used, is just to seal the joint and give a bit of padding to stop the glass rattling. You wouldn't usually have a decorative moulding, in which case it doesn't much matter which way round it goes. But in the OP's case, there is a decorative moulding so that ought to go on the inside. So you're right there too!

 

[Penners]

Phew! I got away with it!

 

[Craig]

Thank you all. As its a basement door, we went for bars inside and putty out!