It's just past 1am and this storm is depressing me

[discobarry]

Morning all,

We are having awful winds tonight and we have had some awful rain, i'd say the worst of the winter. As some of you'll remember I had some turmoil on who to choose to point our house, we did have it pointed and well, it leaks.
It doesn't just leak a little it leaks a lot, through the bedroom tyestone and down the chimney Brest in the bedroom where it didn't leak before. The company know of this but are dragging there heals a little, I have tried to wait for better weather before I go at them a fair bit more. I thought pointing would sort out our other leak issues as well. The other main reason was to let the house breath again and rid it of it's concrete but things are so much worse now.

Any advise on how to speak with the said company would be appreciated, they have tried or are trying to get me to waterproof the house with that invisible paint on stuff but i'd not and it's cheeky when we have just spent a lot with them.

 

[formerly known as]

what was the walling pointed with and was it done properly?

Deep joints need to be thoroughly compacted to ensure that the joint is fully packed and that any shrinkage is removed; in certain instances, this cannot be done in one operation or will need to be worked from both faces. Occasionally, low pressure gravity grouting is required to fill voids together with pointing. If the operative has merely pointed over a series of voids within the substrate, or they didn't rake out adequately, then it will not be weathertight.

I assume that they used lime, but was it the right type of lime for the material in the walling and the level of exposure?

Was the operative working to a specification or merely instructed to point the walling?

 

[discobarry]

Morning, the walls were pointed with lime and used nosterfield sand? I asked for the property to be repointed in lime so it could breath as it should. That was my only request as I know little on the subject and I put my trust in masonary experts.

 

[formerly known as]

I would suggest that you need to open up the worst area/s to establish what has been done - this could be undertaken for you by an experienced surveyor/architect (you will of course need to agree to them undertaking both destructive opening up and appropriate making good) you need to know what has been done before you take the contractor to task on this.

 

[discobarry]

Take out all the pointing on half a gable end? I was thinking a long similar lines really in getting another lime pointer to do a little investigative work.

 

[88v8]

what was the walling pointed with and was it done properly?
Deep joints need to be thoroughly compacted to ensure that the joint is fully packed and that any shrinkage is removed; in certain instances, this cannot be done in one operation or will need to be worked from both faces. Occasionally, low pressure gravity grouting is required to fill voids together with pointing. If the operative has merely pointed over a series of voids within the substrate, or they didn't rake out adequately, then it will not be weathertight.
I assume that they used lime, but was it the right type of lime for the material in the walling and the level of exposure?
Was the operative working to a specification or merely instructed to point the walling?

Dispiriting when you've paid to have a problem fixed and it isn't.

I believe that lime needs more compaction than cement. Tradesmen used to keep various pieces of hardwood, different thicknesses, that they could use to ram the lime into joints of differing widths.
The joints also need to be free of dust, and wetted.

Our Welsh specialists, nice chaps that I employed when I knew nothing of lime work, did none of the above. No vacuuming to remove dust, no real wetting, no compaction tools. They just chiselled out, then trowelled in the mix and relied on the churn brush to clean the face and provide a bit of compaction. I decided whether we used NHL2, or 3.5, or 5, somewhat at random, depending whether I thought the wall needed primarily to resist water coming in, or breathe to remove internal damp.
Luckily, we have no leaks.

I suspect that few, very few, workmen really do the job properly unless they're closely supervised, and then one wouldn't want to pay what it would cost.

Our walls were built as a sort of informal cavity with very few tie-stones, and I'm sure this helps as any damp that gets through the outer face can't cross into the inner skin. I wouldn't dream of trying to fill the cavity, I think that could be disastrous.

Not that all this helps the OP.
I'd start by chasing down the leaks by spraying small areas of wall with the hose, keep it in that area only for quite a while. An hour perhaps, or until it leaks whichever sooner. Start at the top, slowly work down, let the wall dry out each time. It could take days, I'm afraid, if the area is large.
Take a picture of the area, print it out, and when you find a leak, draw in the area on the pic. When you've gone round the house, you'll have some areas that need more investigation. Perhaps the pointing will need chiselling out again and redoing with more compaction or more raking out or different lime.

I find that before letting out any work, I need to learn how to do it myself. That way, I can judge the competence of those tendering, and the ability of their workmen. Otherwise you're at the mercy of cowboys, and the well-meaning but incompetent. I think this is the best advice I can give you on any building work.

Leaks...we had a leak down the sitting room chimney flue. I seem to have fixed that, although it's not been really wet this winter so it's hard to say.
There is a leak beside one of the window reveals in the (1960s) cavity-wall bathroom extension, I guess this has to do with the cavity filling we had done.
We also have a leak through the half-timber on the N front. I've reduced it but can't eliminate it, that would need the front of the house off. Luckily we rarely get hard rain from the North. I'm sure it's leaked a hundred years, and I'm jolly well not going to be the one that fixes it.
Wish this was southern California.

Ivor

 

[Mickey]

Hi,

I too have experienced in this area..unfortunately as does Jackpoint who may be able to advise how they dealt with it. We had exactly the same problem in that it leaked worse in some areas after it was first lime pointed than before with cement. There are areas of our wall near the mullion windows where by design (maybe it didn't rain as much in 1846) the wall is thinner granite block rather than thick rubble filled wall, and we have the wind coming off the sea that drives in the rain. Our stonemason ended up pointing some areas of the inside as well as outside and some areas lime plastered to give more depth to the wall. Slightly nervous saying this but this has cured the problem, I also wondered if it takes longer for the lime to go off as it were and hence become more water tight...as you can see I am sadly no expert! There is a silicon product by Beeck which is allegedly breathable, I am slightly sceptical about this but might be worth investigating if all else fails. We also had a real issue with our chimney which in the end had to be taken down (the back of it was actually unsupported and it was leaning dangerously) in the process of this we discovered amongst other things that there was no lead tray installed ...hence the bad leaking, could it be possible that you also have no lead tray or failed lead flashing? We also had an issue with how the roof was bodged up in that there was no tray thing keeping the water away from the top of the wall, so many years of rainy Cornish weather meant that in some areas the rubble infill had been washing out and therefore the wall thickness compromised and it's ability to deal with that kind of weather diminished which was also compounded by cement pointing at that time, when we ripped out the dry lining it was apparent that large sections of two foot thick walls were absolute sodden and just could not take any more moisture...hence it started coming through and I am talking about bucket loads. As I say I really do sympathise and hope that you get it sorted out because it's just miserable and it also made me completely obsessed with the weather!

Good luck.
Mickey

 

[formerly known as]

Take out all the pointing on half a gable end? I was thinking a long similar lines really in getting another lime pointer to do a little investigative work.

certainly look at the worst areas and take those findings as the benchmark. I have dealt with a similar issue - albeit in flintwork - that dictated the need for a combination of gravity grouting in small lifts with wholesale repointing in non hydraulic lime (this is more flexible and more permeable than any of the NHL's)

 

[discobarry]

Ivor, thanks your reply. I'll be trying the hosing technique, I was thinking of this in the early hours.

I didn't have a great feeling about them but the other guy I liked was extortionate.

I'll keep you updated, great advise so far. I know how i'll be spending my weekend haha