Is this what I think it is?

[LadyArowana]

We just got our house back from a succession of tenants and along with a good wash it needs some TLC. In the past it was rather unsympathetically treated, particularly on the half basement level. That suffered the standard concrete floor, gypsum plaster, plastic paint nonsense, with predictable consequences. It's a regular Georgian terrace ( Grade 2 ) and we have 2 unconverted under pavement vaults. If we have to do work down at that level we thought it would be good to get a bit more utility out of the vaults rather than just dark space. Current thinking is that permission is usually granted for something not invasive to be done to one whilst the other is left alone. It did previously have lighting and a power supply, but I had those removed before it was rented as the installation was not up to regs. We would like to use it as a utility area, so some freestanding kitchen type units, butlers sink, washing machine, freezer arrangement, nothing exactly 'habitable' but better than what my friend describes as "the hole".

Last week I got in there and removed some junk that had been left by long gone occupants and underneath I discovered this. It looks like the remains of a toilet to me, but I would be interested if anyone has other thoughts. There was nothing obvious around to make me think there was anything there, so it was a surprise. It also seems odd to me that having had a facility one would remove it, as why not just keep it?

 

[Flyfisher]

It's a bit difficult to judge the scale from the photo but it looks a bit tight for a standard pan - although I guess that low wall on the RHS could be removed?
What's the width between the two walls?

My other thought is whether a cellar (sorry, vault :wink: ) would have a toilet? Not so much from the usefulness perspective but considering how much lower the foul drain would have to be be compared with the usual 2-3 feet or so below ground.

Having said that, a connection to foul drainage would undoubtedly be very useful, indeed probably essential, for your 'utiliy' intentions, but I suspect the only way to investigate will be to do a bit of digging - not to mention hammer & chiselling - to confirm what's underneath that plug of concrete (if it is concrete?).

Do you know where the foul drainage for the property lies? Is it anywhere near this possible toilet?

 

[LadyArowana]

There is an inspection cover? in the lightwell outside the vault, and I think that's where all the drainage goes. It's quite near the "toilet" and yes I may have given that nasty stuff that was put down over the stone a bit of an extra wack with the end of a broom and swept some of it up after, grrr the obsession with covering things up

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd say that inspection cover is a good sign and I notice there is also another grille in the lightwell, presumably to drain any rainwater that finds its way into the lightwell, so that must also drain somewhere. Can you lift that inspection cover? That should reveal the direction of flow of any drains, which might help to indicate the likelihood of any connection into the 'toilet'. It might even be the case that the inspection cover is where that drain might join into the main drainage. Ultimately though, I still think you'll need to apply hammer and chisel to that blocked toilet drain (if that's really what it is) to find the underlying drain. Some care will be required though because if there is drainage beneath it could be clay pipework and easily broken. If a pipe is eventually found, a bucket of water should reveal if it connects to whatever is under that inspection cover.

Good luck!

 

[Abi Cott]

Assuming it is a drain I'm going to suggest it's from a "washhouse" rather than a toilet. More likely at that date and I've seen something similar in my last house that predated any indoor toilet.

Toilets were nasty disease spreading things kept at a distance from the dwelling, so unless this fits that description I'd suggest a laundry drain as the more likely option.

It might also make more sense of the position and height of that wall. Support for a copper or wash tub?

 

[LadyArowana]

Assuming it is a drain I'm going to suggest it's from a "washhouse" rather than a toilet. More likely at that date and I've seen something similar in my last house that predated any indoor toilet.

It might also make more sense of the position and height of that wall. Support for a copper or wash tub?

It's interesting you say that, because in the other one of the two spaces is the remains of something very like the structure in the corner of this picture ( which was part of an lbc application from a similar house ). That was presumed to be associated with washing, although whether heat was involved wasn't stated. Our remnant doesn't seem to have anything like a chimney!

Can you lift that inspection cover?

Ultimately though, I still think you'll need to apply hammer and chisel to that blocked toilet drain (if that's really what it is) to find the underlying drain. Some care will be required though because if there is drainage beneath it could be clay pipework and easily broken.

Good luck!

If there was something to grab onto I might be able to, but it either never had or has lost the handy bars across the recesses, so along with smacking the blocked "toilet" drain with a chisel it shall be left till a competent person arrives. My neighbour has recently done work to put a utility area in one of hers so I shall ask her about it as the drains are probably similar.

I am now equipped with a good camping lantern/ torch which will make further archaeology easier.