Is this wall Grade 2 listed?

[YewBerry]

Hi,

We live in a cottage going back to approx 1650. The cottage is listed grade 2 and is in close proximity to a large 19th C house that has had major building works (garages with rooms above) + improved extension with stone parapet etc etc. Though the owners have close to 2 acres they seem intent on building us in. We are concerened that in the future they may attempt to build on the one side of our home that is currently just land and trees). This pieces of land contains a low wall approximately 8ft long that is built of the same aged stone as our cottage separated by a path over which we have 24/7 right of way.

We have just come into possession of a watercolour showing this cottage to have been bigger (hard to tell from angle but possibly the length of the wall) and that the wall 'may' be part of the orginal building. The watercolour was painted in 1840 before any other houses were built in the area.

Ok..a long winded post I know. What I would like to know is whether this wall is likely to be listed. On the Land Registry plans it is part of the neighbours boundary. On hand drawn extract from the registry made pre 1950 is looks almost/but not quite attached to the cottage. If the wall isn't listed how could we go about getting it listed. Would the painting and previous (hand drawn) plans made during earlier conveyances be proof the this was previously part of the cottage and thus come under the current listing? We are not interested in trying to claim it as ours we just want to prevent the possibility of it being demolished or building on the only free side of the cottage. :?

Basically we are looking for a way to protect the cottage from future (enclosing) development. It will be there long after we shuffle off and we feel as if we are failing as caretakers!

Thanks all.

P.S. Probably should mention neighbour is Barrister and on comitte of just about everything and regularly presses the flesh of council members/MPs etc etc. :roll:

 

[Penners]

Here's a completely inexpert view.

If the Land Registry shows the wall as belonging to the neighbour, I don't think you're on strong ground - unless, of course, the neighbour's property is also listed.

As to whether you could get the wall listed, given the overworked state of most local authority conservation departments, I suspect they might not regard it as much of a priority. However, I suggest that your best bet is to seek advice from your CO about the whole business.

Sorry if that's all a bit negative. Maybe other, more expert, people will have a more optimistic view.

 

[mivec]

Again Here's another completely inexpert view.
I’m not sure if your wall would be covered by the listing or not but from our recent experience your local CO officer may have more influence over the situation than you think.

Our grade 2 listed cottage is next door to a builders merchants which is not an ideal neighbour, although we shouldn’t complain too much as it’s part of our property’s history.

Back in 1900 our cottage was bough by a local carpenter and the grounds developed into the local saw mill. Over the years he started selling direct to the public, things like garden benches. Slowly that part of the business grew to into a DIY store.

Now the sawmill is long gone and over the last few years the DIY store has evolved into a larger, more commercial business, think Jewsons. Part of that process has been them trying to update the original 1900 saw mill sheds that they still run the business from.

They applied for planning permission to install an external fire escape staircase to the shed nearest to us so they could use the 1st floor as office space. The shed is only a few meters away from our cottage.

The planning permission was refused on, what appears to be, solely the recommendation of the CO officer. He was the only official who objected to the staircase and, as the sheds are not listed, must have only been asked his opinion due to how close the development was to a listed building.

I believe he said that ideally the sheds would never have been erected so close to the cottage and the only development he would recommend would be their removal.

 

[Carol]

If the wall is considered near enough to any listed building by a CO it will be 'curtilage listed' and will be subject to LBC regulations. Talk to your Conservation officer and he will be able to give you details. Or wait for Gareth to explain!

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, I was also thinking of a 'curtilage' angle to this matter. Your CO is certainly the person to talk to about this, but they may not be willing to get involved in speculation about what your neighbour may or may not do in the future. It would be a different matter, of course, if planning permission were actually sought, at which time there would be specific plans against which to consider the impact.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

The key issue in determining the extent of listing is the situation as it was at the time of listing.

If the wall was part of your property at that time, then it is listed. If not (and you neighbour's property owned it then, and isn't listed) then it isn't. It sounds to me as though it isn't, but you should talk to your own CO about it.

Getting it listed is likely to present problems as it doesn't sound to me to be of sufficient interest in its own right and in its current condition to be worth listing. The only way to find out would be to apply for listing (English Heritage's responsibility) http://www.culture.gov.uk/what_we_do/historic_environment/4179.aspx

That said, any development affecting the wall is also likely to affect the setting of your listed house - and your neighbour's committee links may not be as helpful as he might think.

 

[DaveBrigg]

That said, any development affecting the wall is also likely to affect the setting of your listed house - and your neighbour's committee links may not be as helpful as he might think.

We also have a near neighbour who wanted to build on land adjoining our house. He was turned down three times and then lost his appeal when an independent inspector agreed that any building work would affect the setting of our listed house. This was despite him (allegedly) being able to shake the right hands. We did have the support of the Conservation Officer, and through him the weight of the council planning department. If, as Gareth suggests, the wall is not listed, you may just have to wait and oppose any application for planning permission.
The reasons for the refusal of 'our' appeal are here http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/fscdav/READONLY?OBJ=COO.2036.300.2.8041686&NAME=/Decision.pdf if you want some ideas of the arguments to use.
Are there any trees deserving of preservation orders?

 

[Flyfisher]

Does it really make much difference whether the wall in question is listed or not? Presumably, the neighbour could still apply to build something near it without affecting the wall itself.

Probably better to just deal with any planning application as and when (and if) one is submitted.