Is this the right tool for excavation?

[JoceAndChris]

http://www.jewson.co.uk/tool-hire/earth-moving/excavators/products/6703/jcb-micro-mini-excavator/

My lovely gardener Daniel is going to be using it to make a pond as soon as I can hire one. The pond will be about 8 metres long by 6 metres wide and about 1.5 metres deep.

Any help on what to hire much appreciated!

 

[Flyfisher]

When we were having the groundworks dug for our extension I discussed what would be needed to dredge and tidy up our ponds. He said it was imporant to size the digger for the job because if you tried to save hire costs by using a smaller machine then the job would take much longer than you might think because of all the time needed to move the machine back and forth instead of being able to reach the required distance.

8x6m is quite a large area so I'd guess that a mini-digger (usually around 1.5 tons) might not have the necessary reach for a quick job. Also, if Daniel is not an experienced digger operator then you'll be paying for the time it takes for him to learn. I've used a digger for a few things here and while it is not particularly difficult it made me appreciate how quickly an expert operator can work - a bit like a lot of our DIY jobs really.

I would certainly discuss the job with an experienced contractor, or two, and see if a common view emerges. 'The chap who did our groundworks works for himself and was from Wisbech so not too far from you. PM me if you'd like his contact details.

 

[tobydog]

Joce - this might sound like a silly question but what is the pond for? If it's for wildlife then 1.5m is way too deep if that's going to be consistent across the whole area. If you need that depth for fish (no wildlife eventually ) then you could have it 1.5m deep nearer to one end and then slope it gradually like a beach up to the other end with an allround shelf just below the surface for marginals. This should help by having safe shallows for wildlife over most of the summer even as it dries out and depth for a safe winter sanctuary for the fish. That would also enable a mini-digger to use the slope for total access. Just some thoughts.

 

[skier-hughes]

To dredge our moat we used a local digger man. He came in at £25 per hour and had one of these


We also had a 6 ton dumper truck, like this


The moat is around 150m long and 13m wide and I reckon we took out about 300 tonnes of silt.

It took 4 days of two people, the digger man and me driving the dumper. Most time is taken up driving the dumper to where the silt was being dumped.
Plus, as we were working to a fixed area, not wanting to damage my bridge, trees and plants on the bank etc, the fact we had a man who could use a digger like that with inch precision was a godsend.

Some of the four days was also spent relaying the clay bottom, as we had to dig a trench big enough to get the digger and dumper under the bridge.

I'd say go for large, go for someone who drives their own digger and if you are moving the soil a distance get a dumper truck.

As a comparison of not moving the soil. The same digger man dug a 3' deep trench 600m in length in a day for our water connection.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Hmm. I only have a doorway-sized width access into the garden - short of dismantling walls, or the ha ha, or the hedging - that fact can't be changed. I don't mind paying for Daniel's time and if I have the thing a week if he doesn't finish I'll have a go. I'll keep the earth mountain as that can be used for banking up (the pond is going in a sloping garden) and also for other projects.

I can change the proposed depth - thank you for your post Toby. Yes, I'd hoped for fish and ducks (just 4 bantam ducks) And bull rushes and reeds and rather natural looking. It's south facing and will get a lot of sunlight. What depth at the shallow end - 75cm?

Thanks for all the help! Interesting to read about your projects too! xxx

 

[JoceAndChris]

Just on the fish though - I can't, at this stage, pay for a trench for electrics out to this part of the garden. So like our pond in London the filtration is going to be me and a net netting out the mud once in a while.

I thought maybe in the future I could do the electrics - when there aren't so many other expensive projects.

 

[tobydog]

Joce - if you're just going for fish and ducks then the depth can be whatever you want. If you look at the pond that Monty Don constructed on Gardeners World I recall that it doesn't quite reach his waist. If you were to go for 75cm or so in the middle (allowing for edges and marginals) then you could still use a mini-digger on a slope inside the pond area working from one end to the other with the final section being carried out from the bank. Think of how construction companies get spoil lorries into an excavation and that will give you an idea. Some mini-diggers can shrink down enough to get through garden gates because their tracks are retractable.

I'm starting a pond shortly but I'll be doing it by hand. Hence the preference for a shallow wildlife pond.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I wish you the best of luck with your wildlife pond tobydog! There's nothing nicer than sitting by the pond with a large glass of buttery white watching the dragonflies skim over and the bats dart.

As for Monty Don - ohhhhh -mmmmmm. He makes me go weak at the knees - not sure I could cope with seeing him go in the water up to his, um, near-waist.

But back to the project in hand. The main thing is we create a strong Chinoiserie theme - it is to be the Chinese Lake. I'm going to buy a red Chinese bridge and will be able to walk over it to reach a sitting area adorned with Chinese lanterns. The planting should be exotic -maybe azaleas, tree ferns, jasmine.

 

[LadyArowana]

But back to the project in hand. The main thing is we create a strong Chinoiserie theme - it is to be the Chinese Lake. I'm going to buy a red Chinese bridge and will be able to walk over it to reach a sitting area adorned with Chinese lanterns. The planting should be exotic -maybe azaleas, tree ferns, jasmine.

I associate the "red bridge" look more with Japanese gardens than with Chinese, maybe I haven't travelled enough in the Middle Kingdom to get familiar enough with their landscaping though. Nice concise article here about the Japanese ones http://www.home-designing.com/2013/08/japanese-gardens The red painted torii gate is a Japanese thing, so maybe it derived from that. I shall have a look in my books, bought in a fit of enthusiasm when we moved into the house in Tokyo, which did have a Japanese garden........ but only in the sense that it was "a garden" "in Japan", and about the size of a postage stamp, barely room for a lantern let alone a bridge. Still, I enjoyed looking after it and would collect interesting pebbles to add when we went out hiking, somebody once commented that my bag seemed very heavy..... "what have you got in there, rocks?"...... Ummmmmm, "yes"

 

[88v8]

Any plants you put in there, quarantine them for a year in a nursery pond... it will give you a better chance of avoiding duckweed.
If that arrives, you're ****ed

As regards general design, you may have seen this?
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=622

Ivor

 

[tobydog]

As for Monty Don - ohhhhh -mmmmmm. He makes me go weak at the knees - not sure I could cope with seeing him go in the water up to his, um, near-waist.

Joce - I said Mr. Don not Mr. Darcy although I get the distinct impression that would would like to get up to your neck in it with both of them :roll:

 

[LadyArowana]

So far I didn't find any difinitive answers about red bridges and whether they are mainly Japanese or Chinese, but this is one of the most beautiful examples. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futarasan_jinja

 

[Owain]

Hmm. I only have a doorway-sized width access into the garden - short of dismantling walls, or the ha ha, or the hedging - that fact can't be changed.

Scaffold a temporary bridge over the haha.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Could do that Owain, yes - we'll see. It's a bit fragile (and listed!) so will avoid that route if at all possible but it may be that's our only option.

Lovely red bridge pic LadyA and interesting to look into the authenticity, though like the 18th C gardeners a mish-mash of orientalism appeals.

Ivor - thanks so much for RHS link, that's just the kind of thing I've been looking for. And also the tip on quarantine but I suspect that might be a bit hard to achieve? I don't mind wading in and pulling stuff out periodically, garden work is the best work in my view- but I take your point that the weeds are best avoided. There will be wild birds pooing all over the place so all manner of things will pop up I expect.

As for Mr Darcy and Monty Don at once, I fear it maybe too much!

 

[Flyfisher]

So far I didn't find any difinitive answers about red bridges and whether they are mainly Japanese or Chinese, . . . .

Here's a smaller one from a place in Tokyo I stayed at once:

http://www.newotani.co.jp/en/group/garden/index.html

 

[88v8]

Duckweed can't be pulled up. I wish. It floats on the surface, millions of tiny leaves all separate, forming a mat that covers all the water.
There is no chemical control atm.
One can skim it off by hand, but in a few days it will be back.
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=366

Amongst other plants it's almost impossible to get at.
By quarantine, I mean have a (very) small pond where you plant any new acquisitions for their first year, to ensure they aren't carrying duckweed. If they are, burn them, empty the pond, and buy new ones. If OK after a year, the plant can go into the main pond.

Ivor

 

[LadyArowana]

So far I didn't find any difinitive answers about red bridges and whether they are mainly Japanese or Chinese, . . . .

Here's a smaller one from a place in Tokyo I stayed at once:

http://www.newotani.co.jp/en/group/garden/index.html

I've stayed there too, I wonder if we were ever there at the same time?

 

[Flyfisher]

Surely not milady, you must be too young, it was about 25 years ago.

 

[LadyArowana]

Surely not milady, you must be too young, it was about 25 years ago.

Missed me by about 3 years :lol:

 

[JoceAndChris]

Got the digger and really no problems at all. OK we had to dismantle a gate, a gate post and some of a wall to get in in the garden, but heigh ho. Nothing that's listed anyway.

I thought I might need a dumper truck to take away the excavated earth but he's done such a neat job of distributing all the soil around the whole area I think it's just fine the way it is.