Is this a dreaded concrete floor?

[JoceAndChris]

I haven't shown you much of this room, so, we'll open the door, which has the old fake wood graining painted on it:

Go up the stairs, which have never been painted, but probably would look better if so:

And into the attic bedroom, which is one of those impossible to photograph little rooms with a dormer, and two Alice in Wonderland sized doors which you must shrink yourself to go through, to emerge into the enormous roof void - not something I've done, but it's exciting- there are a lot of secret places up there.

Anyway this afternoon I've pulled the carpet up and had a good look at the floor, which I sadly conclude is concrete. Do you agree? And why are there so many regular holes, in rows, about the size of a 5 pence piece?

The only good thing is it's all completely dry up there.

 

[Feltwell]

I would say it looks like some kind of thin skim on top of the original floor - but - someone has posted up on here before about what I think was called a lime-ash floor, which could be used as a first floor???? I know nothing about these!! This isn't a trick question, that room does have another room underneath it I presume?

I have seen one house where the owner had poured self-levelling compound on top of the original floorboards to even them out.... :roll:

It's cracked anyway, can you see what is underneath through the holes or can you enlarge one slightly to do so?

 

[JoceAndChris]

http://www.biffvernon.freeserve.co.uk/lime_ash_floors.htm

is a nice piece by Biff on lime-ash floors, but no pics there - and I'm struggling to find any. It might be a thin skim laid over lime ash. I've excavated a couple of small bits, one was as hard as nails (ie concretey), the other just crumbled to powder - but there wasn't any hair inside it.

I'm reluctant to go digging about on this floor as it's directly above the hallway ceiling that I've just carefully decorated. It seems pretty springy to walk on, as you say, there are great cracks in it, but nevertheless, it seems structurally sound. All the old ceilings are made of reed here. My plans for this floor are just to keep it carpeted, it's a very cold room in the winter. I can't see much incentive to lift the concrete at this juncture - lower down the property the concrete is a problem, but here? :?

Here's some pics of the inside of the roof space and what the ceilings look like from the other side, can't believe I've just been brave enough to go in- and my goodness, it's warm in there today!

 

[Feltwell]

Even if it's a not a breathable material it's not going to be doing any harm there. As you want to put carpet down anyway I would just leave it as is, except for maybe filling the holes.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks Feltwell!

 

[MdB]

And why are there so many regular holes, in rows, about the size of a 5 pence piece?

Ah, that would be concrete weevils and a bad case too. I would contact "MdB Nasty Chemical Sprayers & Co" who will able to cure you of this infestation in no time at all. I am sure that Chris would be able to afford their low(ish) fees for this fantastic service.

 

[chuckey]

When I saw the pic of the first floor concrete floor, My first thought was I bet its a rendered flag floor. sadly your subsequent pics show that its not. In Wensleydale, the traditional flooring and ceiling(for downstairs cheese room) is yorkshire flags on big joists. My Brother-in-law has just had them replaced in his cottage. His joist were slightly squared off tree trunks!!
Frank

 

[Flyfisher]

Since concrete is a relatively new material, in the context of many of the properties discussed here, am I the only one to wonder about the wisdom of using it for anything other than a ground floor? I'm thinking about its weight and brittleness rather than breathability. First, unless the building was designed for it (and how could it be?), the extra weight of a concrete floor supported on timbers doesn't seem like a great idea. Even if the result is structurally safe, the timbers are bound to bend and we all know concrete is very weak in tension, so cracking is inevitable.

Unless I've firmly grasped the wrong end of the stick?

 

[Feltwell]

Unless I've firmly grasped the wrong end of the stick?

Nope, you are firmly grasping the right end of the stick!

Joce's photo looks to me like a thin skim of something modern over the original floor, if that's the case it won't have much weight.

You can get original suspended concrete floors in Victorian houses - I have one, my hallway floor over the cellar - but it's a relatively narrow section and it's supported by a bloody great cast iron beam.

Suspended concrete floors in modern construction tend to rely on pre-cast beams with steel reinforcement to take the weight, with concrete blocks bridging the gaps between the beams. The concrete is simply a layer over the top of that.

 

[Jill]

the extra weight of a concrete floor supported on timbers doesn't seem like a great idea. Even if the result is structurally safe, the timbers are bound to bend and we all know concrete is very weak in tension, so cracking is inevitable.

At some point somebody poured a large quantity of concrete on the first floor bedroom in our house, the result being the main oak beam snapped and ended up being supported by metal rods and large wooden planks to either side.





Joce I like the latch on the door, any idea of age? Is the bow in beam which is supported by the vertical planks noticeable in the room below? Well done for being brave.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks everyone -bloody concrete. I hate concrete.

MdB, concrete weevils sound quite welcome really especially if they can get to work weakening the external render, so I won't trouble you just yet. :wink:

Feltwell, do you think a thin skim of concrete is heavier than a load of pine/ash/oak floorboards?

Jill, thanks for the nice comment (think the latch is 19th C) not sure which pic you mean about the bulging beam - but yes, all the ceilings are badly bulging and cracked. The ground floor rooms mainly have roof space above, it's just the hall that has this little bedroom above it.

The uneven ceilings in the principal rooms make it highly tempting to instal this kind of thing: http://www.uk.bondsplastermouldings.com/

The ceilings have (so far!) supported the extra weight of the roses and cornice we've installed.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I think that's a lime/ash floor that someone has tried to mend with a cement screed in places.

 

[JoceAndChris]

to lime ash :x to the bodgy cement fix

At some point I'll lift the whole carpet to get a proper look.

Thanks Gareth!

 

[Feltwell]

Feltwell, do you think a thin skim of concrete is heavier than a load of pine/ash/oak floorboards?

I don't think it is concrete. It looks like a skim of something cementious, like a levelling compound, over whatever the original floor is. Take some up and I bet you'll find either floorboards or a lime/ash floor. No, it won't have much weight if it's only thin - which judging by the cracking, it is.

Given the amount of work you've got to do elsewhere and the fact that you plan on covering this up with a carpet anyway, if it seems sound and doesn't move too much I think I'd adopt the "if it's not broke don't fix it" methodology!

Edit - just seen Gareth's post.

 

[philpjuk100]

It looks like the lime/ash floor in our attic,ours is cracked as well although yours appears to have been patched,if it is lime/ash there should not be any pebbles or other ballast visible,phil.

 

[Lime]

The floor reminds me of the flooring in my house I lived in when a child.
It was called a composition floor.
The holes are also familiar.
They look like holes that were bored and filled with lead so that a carpet could be nailed down... common just after the war if you could afford it.

 

[Flyfisher]

At some point somebody poured a large quantity of concrete on the first floor bedroom in our house, the result being the main oak beam snapped and ended up being supported by metal rods and large wooden planks to either side.

Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I'd be concerned about when splashing concrete around upstairs!

I wonder what the advantages of concrete over standard floorboards were thought to be? Sound-proofing? Draught-proofing? Even so, I'd have thought boarding the underside of the beams would have been a better solution.

Perhaps it was a "Changing Rooms"-type makeover fashion at one time? :lol:

 

[JoceAndChris]

As ever, many thanks for your interesting observations on this.

The floor reminds me of the flooring in my house I lived in when a child.
It was called a composition floor.
The holes are also familiar.
They look like holes that were bored and filled with lead so that a carpet could be nailed down... common just after the war if you could afford it.

Ah, that could very well be the case. Thanks Lime.

I wonder what the advantages of concrete over standard floorboards were thought to be? Sound-proofing? Draught-proofing? Even so, I'd have thought boarding the underside of the beams would have been a better solution.

I'd imagine it's a time/effort/money thing. It must be easier, and cheaper to mix up a batch of cement (the previous owner has left us his cement mixer as a permanent reminder of all the inappropriate repair work he carried out) than lay floorboards.

Having said that we laid floorboards in London and it didn't take long at all, or cost very much. Perhaps it's just the old, unfortunate sentiment that "cement is strong".

 

[Flyfisher]

I suppose we'll never know the real reasons, but concrete is only strong in compression and is surprising weak in tension, which is precisely where a sagging floor will crack . . . unless it's reinforced with metal rods, which seems a bit unlikely. Nice of the previous owners to leave you their concrete mixer though - you can do the other upstairs floors to match. :wink:

 

[AMc]

the previous owner has left us his cement mixer as a permanent reminder of all the inappropriate repair work he carried out

It's not the tool that's the problem, just pop out and paint "Lime Mixer" on it and you'll feel better straight away