Investigating ceiling and cornicing

[ireneadler101]

Hi,

We have recently purchased a Victorian house which in one of the reception rooms, has lovely original cornicing. In the other reception room, the ceiling has been overboarded with modern plaster, but some signs of the cornicing remain.

We'd like to find out whether the original (presumably damaged) lath and plaster ceiling and cornicing is a still there. Any tips on the best way of doing this? We were just going cut a hole through the plasterboard and see what's there, but if anyone has any better ideas/words of caution, let me know!

Pic of ceiling attached.

 

[MikeG]

Lift the carpet in the room above. Old houses will always have floor boards which have been removed for the laying of services (pipes, wires etc). Find one of these boards and unscrew it, and look inside. That will tell you all you need to know without having any nasty ceiling repairs to do.

 

[MatthewC]

The old ceiling plaster is probably still there as removal is a very messy affair - personal experience!

However, if it's been boarded it is probably cracked and possibly detaching from the lath in places. If you look at it from above as Mike suggests you may see the lime mortar nibs above the lath have broken off which could be a good indication of failing plaster. However, sod's law says that the area where you lift the boards will be only good area... Equally, if there is any sign of earlier dampness and rotten lath then I wouldn't bank on it being very good either.

Alternatively, a careful drill through (I'd use a wood drill) in a few places underneath would at least show if there is lime plaster existing above the plasterboard, but won't tell you much about its condition!

 

[ireneadler101]

Thanks - good idea re lifting up the floorboards on the floor above. I think we will have to do that anyway to inspect the joists (the ceiling in the other room with the cornicing is cracking badly, likely to due to excess load on the floor above).

Another pic attached of the (remaining) cornicing in the adjacent room in case anyone is interested. A whole other job there getting that reinstated!



Also - can anyone give me a worst-case scenario estimate of the cost of replastering the ceiling, assuming it is in such bad condition that it has to be re-done (which I'm guessing it is if they overboarded it). I'm not looking to rely on it but it would be useful to have a ballpark figure in mind. I would get a plasterer in to quote but we don't have the keys to the house yet (exchanged but not completed).

Apologies - I'm new to period property restoration!

 

[ireneadler101]

Thanks all - I hadn't thought of checking from above.

I am hoping that cornicing like the one in the adjacent room might be under there somewhere - but to find this out I think a hole will have to be made in the current ceiling, as this won't be visible from above.

 

[Tony.]

Get a hole saw and drill a hole in the ceiling.
Stick torch up hole and investigate.
If it's a no go
Get length of timber strapping, fix either side of hole with screws. Screw circular cut out onto batten. Fill and decorate

If the cornice is there, tape up doors and have fun

I don't know what lifting a floor board will achieve, there will be deafening etc so the ceiling below won't be visible?

 

[MikeG]

......I don't know what lifting a floor board will achieve, there will be deafening etc so the ceiling below won't be visible?

Deafening?

What lifting a floorboard will tell you is whether there is an extant lath & plaster ceiling. If you see plasterboard from above, you've lost your original ceiling, and obviously the cornicing too. If you see plasterboard from below, but lath & plaster from above, the original ceiling is still there. In the event of the latter scenario, a bit of judicious measurement of joists, and of the finished floor level to underside of the existing ceiling (best done at the stairwell), will soon tell you what sort of gap there is between new ceiling and old ceiling, and therefore what the chances are of there being room for the old cornices. So, a few minutes with a screwdriver and a tape measure should give you all the answers you need, without having to do any repair work and redecorating.

 

[Tony.]

The Op said it was over boarded so if you lifted a floorboard you would see the lath and plaster.

From the room, you would see how it was over boarded

 

[Owain]

We were just going cut a hole through the plasterboard and see what's there, but if anyone has any better ideas/words of caution, let me know!

You can get really cheap (under a tenner) USB endoscopes on ebay for looking into small holes.

 

[livias]

I have been looking for an excuse to buy a boroscope for ages but are they actually any use? Earlier experiences putting an arm and a camera into a small hole have just given me photos of indistinct black and grey

 

[kreyszig]

they are if you can control them. I bought a cheapo usb one on a 10 or so meter cable (similar to thisone ). The picture quality is actually pretty good - a built in, dimmable light helps with that. The diameter of the camera + light must be ~5mm. But it's essentially 2 inches of camera on some flexible cable, so can be quite difficult to get to go where you want it to. so far it's proved more useful in an engine bay than the house, if I'm honest.
some wiring rods like thesecould help .

 

[MatthewC]

Also - can anyone give me a worst-case scenario estimate of the cost of replastering the ceiling, assuming it is in such bad condition that it has to be re-done (which I'm guessing it is if they overboarded it).

I might have a go if you tell us the dimensions!

 

[ireneadler101]

I might have a go if you tell us the dimensions!

It's about 6m x 5m.

 

[MatthewC]

I reckon it's £1700 min, more likely getting on for £2000.

That's made up from 3 days labour at £250-ish (two men), with one coat haired mortar, one unhaired (both 10mm+), one coat plaster (2-3mm), plus an awful lot of lath (choices of type) and s/s nails, and mixer hire. I used the Mike Wye figures, and have assumed you will put up the lath yourself (as well as getting the old ceiling down)!

 

[ireneadler101]

Ouch, thanks, I thought it would be a lot.

So if the ceiling has cracks in it but can be fixed, that would be preferable...

...now just to buy an endoscope camera and work out how bad it is...

 

[MatthewC]

Just realized I forgot the VAT! If the plasterer is registerd, that makes it over £2000 as a bottom figure