Introduction

[KellyC]

Hi All

I live with my family in Dorset in a Victorian cottage, built in 1859. It's currently on the cozy side (especially considering we have 3 young children!) with 2 bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs and a living room, dining room (which just about fits a table - though it had to come in through the window!), a small kitchen and a separate utility room which is in quite an unfinished state. We're currently going through the planning process and are hoping to add an extra bedroom and a larger kitchen/diner but we're also planning, over a period of time, to renovate the rest of the house. I'm finding it very difficult to find anything to compare our house to as most Victorian cottages I see are more of the townhouse variety whereas ours is far more quaint and simple. It's built of red brick with a slate roof and the upstairs is built into the slope of the roof. I'd love some advice on a few things:

This week I lifted up the carpet in the living room (not sure why I haven't done it before as we've been here since last May!) and found these tiles:

Any ideas what they are, terracotta? We had planned to have wooden floors throughout downstairs but now hope to restore these. Is it something worth trying to do ourselves or better to get a professional in?

This is the fireplace in our living room:

Does anybody have any thoughts on what would have been here originally? The 'woodburner' is a horrible electric thing which we'll be getting rid of - ditto the fake 'marble' insert and probably the surround too. It looks far too big for the room which is only about 12ft square. Would it have been simply a hole in the wall with a woodburner or would there have been a surround and, in which case, of what style?

We have a bit of an odd setup, in that the back wall of our staircase, which leads from the living room, abuts the kitchen window rather than a wall! I'm not explaining that very well and have almost certainly spelt 'abuts' wrong! Here are a couple of photos:

Any thoughts on why on earth this is how it is?!

Finally, we're really keen to replace the ugly PVCu windows with wooden windows - flush casements I believe. Any recommendations for a supplier of these? What about window bars? We currently have what I believe are called Georgian bars (lots of smaller rectangles) which I also see on many cottages but I've seen windows called Victorian and they seem to have larger sections/less bars.

I hope it's ok to dive straight in with this. I know very little on the subjects of both period propery and propery renovation so please excuse me if I've said anything not quite right!

Kelly x

 

[skier-hughes]

I think you've said everything quite right, look before you leap, learn before you destroy and can't be bothered to write anything else as am going on holiday.

Tiles look like ours, a good scrub with a stiff brush and washing up liquid will make quite a difference, as will walking on them for a few days

Enjoy

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Kelly,

A very warm welcome. You'll get loads of comments I'm sure. But later from me, as am pushed for time now.

The floor will come up a treat with some scrubbing. (well, lots of scrubbing to be honest!) It can then be sealed with anything from mutton fat (not recommneded!) to linseed oil to other waxes/oils. It will look lovely. And doesn't need a "professional" - unless you are very rich!

More later.

Robin

 

[Schoolmarm]

The stairs look to be a replacement set, either in a different place to the original ones or in the same place but made a lot less steep.

I have seen this quite a lot.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

In terms of the fireplace, in a small cottage in 1859 I doubt it would have been very grand, and something like this is typically Victorian (although the tiles and styling probably make this later than your cottage:

It may well have been something more simple like this:

Although that size may be more akin to what you might find in a bedroom.

If you want to keep your existing surround, then for my money a simple arched insert is probably most typical of early Victorian:

If you do restore the fireplace, then your pine surround *may* be original (hard to tell from the photos) but is not untypical from my limited experience, and you will need a hearth. Lift the carpet in front of the fireplace and see if it still exists.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Thinking again about the depth of your opening and the small "cottage" nature, dependent upon what other kitchen the cottage had, it is feasible that the living room fireplace was used for more than just heat:

This strikes me as a bit large though for a 12 foot room and could have made it uncomfortably hot. Something to remember whatever you put in there. Anyways - enjoy planning your replacement fireplace and do keep us all in touch!

 

[Feltwell]

Welcome!

Your tiles look like quarry tiles to me. They are as tough as old boots and were very widely produced in that era as a functional & cheap tile, which would tie in with what you say about your cottage being a "simple" style. I've got them in my kitchen and scullery. If once you've got all the carpet up you find they are in good condition - it's not uncommon to find that someone has destroyed an area laying pipes or making another alteration - then I would just give them a good scrub and see how they look after a while, without worrying about sealing them. Mine aren't sealed and look fine, and they stand up to much abuse - we're not "shoes off at the door" type people and we have 3 kids as well !

If any have been damaged then try local reclamation yards, they were so widely used that chances are you'll find something that's an acceptable match.

I agree entirely with Robin (FamilyWiggs) on the fireplace. Fireplaces with more of a "hood" protuding above where the fire itself goes are generally late Victorian I believe, early Victorian is more likely to be a simple arch.

The wall that cuts across a window, is it plasterboard? As Schoolmarm said, chances are the stairs weren't there and/or were not as steep originally. Some houses even had a ladder instead of stairs, I suspect yours is a bit late for that but I have seen it in a Welsh farm workers cottage of that era.

As for windows - any clues as to what was there originally? I presume no original windows are left, have you any clues from neighbouring properties, neighbours or past owners? If it is wooden casements that you're after then most joinery shops can make these, but you need to be very careful to specify what you want in order not to get a generic-looking modern window. If you search on here you'll find references to a couple of regular posters who make windows......

 

[JoceAndChris]

Welcome to the forum Kelly, that looks like a sweet house you have there. The quarry tiles look in great condition and could be sealed, or just enjoyed as they are. Some of the Liberon products would put a good shine on there if that's what you wanted. I haven't bothered either as mine get crusted with efflorescence and need very regular scrubbing to get it off - so it depends on levels of damp I suppose.

You'll have a lot of fun fireplace shopping, these people look helpful, not that I have any personal experience of them.

http://www.britainsheritage.co.uk/

And do keep us all posted with your projects!

 

[Penners]

Hello, Kelly, and welcome. What a lovely find that floor is!

I'm always reluctant to disagree with others, for fear of being wrong! However, I don't think those are quarry tiles. They look too soft and porous. My money is on brick paviours or pamments (which are essentially the same thing - terracotta).

As Graham suggested, start by giving them a good scrub with detergenty water. Try not to get them too wet, because they'll take quite long time to dry. Keep a supply of old towels beside you and dry as you go.

At first the surface will probably look a great deal better, but you can't really make your final judgement on the success of the operation until the floor has thoroughly dried. Once it has, if you're happy with it, then a treatment of floor wax (something like Osmo Polyx - follow the instructions) will make them look great.

But if the washing hasn't got them clean, then you need to move on to something a bit more abrasive. Get yourself a soft red brick, some fine, wet sand and a good supply of elbow grease ( :wink: ). Spread the sand about and then rub it well with the brick, using it just like a scrubbing brush. This will, in effect, sandpaper the surface of the paviours, and should get them really clean. Let the sand dry, then vacuum it up and - if necessary - give the surface a wash.

Once completely dry, wax as above.

It'll be hard work, but the result will be very satisfying.

 

[Feltwell]

I'm always reluctant to disagree with others, for fear of being wrong! However, I don't think those are quarry tiles. They look too soft and porous. My money is on brick paviours or pamments (which are essentially the same thing - terracotta).

I do wonder how different pamments and old quarry tiles actually are, and if there's a lot of regional variance in what we call "quarry tiles" - it's such a generic term. I'm certain my floor is quarry tiles - they have Dennis Ruabon stamped on the back of them, who aren't too far away and who were (and still are) one of the major producers of quarry tiles. My tiles are worn and pitted in areas, and look pretty much identical to the ones in Kelly's picture.

More modern quarry tiled floors look much harder and more uniform. That could be down to lack of wear and tear or changes in production techniques making the product more uniform, I don't know. I really don't like the look of a new quarry tiled floor - they look bland.

Having seen pictures before of Norfolk pamments, I have to agree that they look very similar to old quarry tiles, but seem to be available in paler shades. Are they much the same thing but just from different regional clays? The term pamment or pammet, is it used outside of East Anglia?

What I am sure of is that the images online of new handmade pamments are a damn sight more attractive than new machine-made quarry tiles!

 

[Moo]

Is there a difference between the thickness of pamments and quarry tiles?
Our pamments are nearly an inch thick.

 

[Penners]

Yes, Moo, there is. Quarry tiles will normally be thinner than pamments. They're also fired much harder than pamments.

The surface of a quarry tile is usually well nigh perfect, without colour variations, imperfections or impurities in it. And they're usually smaller and much redder than pamments.

Pamments, on the other hand, tend to have variations in colour and small imperfections and impurities in the surface, They look much more like bricks than tiles.

 

[KellyC]

Thank you all for your welcomes and advice

Firstly, the floor. The previous owners left photos of the work they did to the house when they bought it in the 80s and they seem to have dug up the floor in the dining room and the kitchen and it appears that they are more like bricks in terms of thickness. They also feel quite soft and not too cold to the touch. We haven't lifted more than the corner of our carpet but there are areas where there are dips - I thought they'd be missing tiles but the one I could access was just laying lower than the other tiles around it. I'm pleased to hear that we should be able to restore them ourselves - I imagine it'll take a very long time as it'll be a 'when the kids are in bed' job but I'm looking forward to it.

Now to the fireplace. This is one of the photos the previous owner took:

So the surround was put in by them, not original. It's actually stone of some sort, though it's very soft and has chipped in various places where we've bumped into it with furniture. There's no hearth under the carpet and the tiles on the floor actually go right up to the fireplace. What does this suggest? That there was no hearth or that the tiles aren't original?! They've obviously used the pointed arch as the basis for the fireplace they've put in but there appears to be a narrower curved arch in the brick too. I don't know if we have room for the hearth as we have 3 doors off this very small room. The door from the front porch, the door to the kitchen and the door to the stairs so it has alot of through traffic. The door to the front porch sits in the alcove to one side of the fireplace and the door to the kitchen swings open into the other alcove so you need to be able to walk freely directly in front of the fireplace. We have this fireplace in our kitchen:

, so I guess the cooking would have been done on this. We also have a third, rather odd, chimney breast coming out of the single storey room to the rear of our house, as seen in this old photo. Any thoughts on that?

As for the windows, I have no idea what they'd have originally looked like as there is nothing to compare our house to in the local area. This is where the window in our dining room was before the single storey extension was added to the rear (a very long time ago I believe):

and this is the window on the other side:

All our window and doors have the arches with metal bars above them.

I'm not sure about the stairs - the wall at the very bottom where it joins the window may be a partition wall but further up it appears to be a supporting wall. We had considered turning the stairs around so they are accessed from the kitchen, giving us one less door leading off the living room and the wall no longer ajoining the window but we think this would then give us a problem with the layout of the new kitchen which won't be big enough to accommodate the through traffic either.

Kelly x

 

[Feltwell]

Penners, I agree with you completely on new quarry tiles - they are, as you say, relatively thin, very hard and very uniform in appearance. But Victorian ones can look very different to the mass-produced ones made now - see the pictures of mine below, which I think look very like Kelly's.

These are, as I've said above, Dennis Ruabon tiles. They vary in thickness quite a lot but are around 3/4" generally. The areas pictured have I think never been lifted, you can see the variance from tile to tile in the different way they have worn - some are much more pitted than others. The area shown I think was originally in front of a sink, so would have seen a good deal of wear.

My thinking was, as these are made from Etruria Marl clay - which is also used extensively for brick making in this area - and that Victorian firing and general production techniques would make for a much less uniform product than now, then maybe even though they were machine made they are not too dissimilar to the hand made pamments being produced now? Colour is different of course but I guess that's down to the clay in the region concerned. Does the term Pamment get used outside of East Anglia?

This text & picture of red pamments comes from Taylors Reclaims in Wisbech's website:-

Handmade Pamments and floorbricks vary mainly due to the different type of local clay used when making them.Traditionally Cambridge Gault clay produced a buff to salmon pink colour unique to this area,Norfolk,Suffolk and,Lincolnshire pamments red to orange.

Victorian quarry tiles were machine-made and used much more widely throughout the country.They came in 3 colours of red ,black and buff and were often laid using a different combination of the colours and patterns.

 

[Feltwell]

Kelly, I've just seen your mail above - you must have pressed submit just before me!

The chimnery breast on the single storey section may have been to serve a scullery, for a fire for heating water for doing the washing. My house has what I believe is this, although the wash copper has long since gone.

 

[Pford75]

My money is on brick paviours or pamments

I agree...they look identical to what we have in the scullery and rear hall. We also have quarry tiles in another room. I'd always understood (and am by no means an expert) that pamments were usually hand made, resulting in slightly rougher edges and a pitted surface, whereas the quarry tiles have laser straight edges and 90deg corners...they also have a very smooth surface.

I would call your floor, pamments

 

[Penners]

Firstly, the floor.... it appears that they are more like bricks in terms of thickness. They also feel quite soft and not too cold to the touch.

In which case, as I said above, I reckon they're brick paviours. The suggestions I made above for pamment cleaning (1. A good scrub, 2. If necessary a brick/sand rub over) should still do the trick.