Internal Stone Walls

[pdg87]

I'm doing my first restoration project of a period stone built property. I wanted to have some of the stone walls exposed in some of the rooms. I have taken them back and have just got them shot blasted. After getting them done the stones seem very grey in colour, I thought this may have just been surface dust but I have washed them down with soapy water and then water on its own, they come up there true colour when wet but they seem to dry grey again. I'm sure this is not the correct colour for the stones. Is there any other methods of cleaning I can do to get the stones to the correct colour?

I was planning to get them lime re-pointed, is there some sort of treatment recommended for using on the stone or some finish which could enhance the colours? Any help/advice appreciated.

this is after blasting:

This is after washing/as it is drying:

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Everyone can guess what I'm going to say, and I really hate offending people, but...

...the only correct treatment for that wall is plaster.

 

[pdg87]

Not at all, as said I'm new to this and hence why I am asking. What is your reasoning? Not the correct stone to be exposed?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Random rubble stone was never exposed in houses. At the very least (and only in the humblest and poorest of dwellings) it would have been thickly whitewashed, but much more likely to have been plastered, with as smooth a finish as could be managed. Exposed stone is a quaint, olde worlde, fashion started by the Victorians (in churches, mainly, with a consequent loss of huge numbers of mediaeval wall paintings which had survived until then hidden under later layers of Protestant white paint), which has spread to domestic interiors mostly after 1960.

 

[vicky whitworth]

Hello, my understanding was that stone was never, ever exposed originally. And if you look at the quality of the stonework you can sort of see why. Plus it's a dust and dirt trap and in the past what with people dying all over the place you would want to minimise worsening the problem.
I think we had a similar dilemma to you. After we'd stripped 2" of concrete render from our internal rubble stone walls we sort of felt we wanted to see the fruits of our labours (well the builder's labours to be precise ) But in the end we lime plastered most of the walls, and limewashed one wall which was orginally an external wall and now forms part of our kitchen. This wall we lime washed so that you can see the stone but it's not bare and shedding bits in the kitchen. The lime wash consolidates the stone and the pointing.
Some photos attached. The one of the parlour after plastering has a strange yellow hue and doesn't do it justice. I have no idea why this is. The walls aren't yellow.
I suppose in the past they didn't have the time for 'features'. They needed practical and lime has an antiseptic effect I think.
I hope this helps.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

It would be useful to have an indication of where you are in the country (county or region if you don't want to be specific), and even more useful to have a photo of the outside of the house (we all like photos here ) to be able to give some thoughts as to how the interiors might have been originally (I see from your earlier posts that the house is listed but has lost most of its original features)

 

[pdg87]

Thanks very much for the comments and photos. Yes its very much a case of you don't know what is there until you spend the time/money to reveal it and after revealing it the stone is not as 'nice' as I had hoped. I'd had in my head from day one I would have some of the stone revealed but rather than just moving on with it thought I would check what other options I have. I'm not too bothered at the moment I have not spent a great deal of money, but I don't want to spend more on getting them cleaned up more and re-pointing if the end result will not look good.

So my other option is to get all of the stone walls lime rendered? One of the reasons I took this wall back was it had been plastered on top (not with lime) and there were some patched of damp. I had someone out and they said if I took it back to the stone and lime re pointed them it would be okay damp wise.

Any other input will be helpful

 

[pdg87]

It would be useful to have an indication of where you are in the country (county or region if you don't want to be specific), and even more useful to have a photo of the outside of the house (we all like photos here ) to be able to give some thoughts as to how the interiors might have been originally (I see from your earlier posts that the house is listed but has lost most of its original features)

I'm in the North East of England - This is the only photo I currently have of the outside:

middle one:

 

[Gareth Hughes]

A few steps up from the most modest of dwellings, pre-1840 to judge by the lack of horns on the sash windows, and the exposed timber lintels over the windows suggest the exterior may have been rendered originally too, with something more of a doorcase round the entrance. I wonder if there are any old photos of it?
A trip to Beamish museum to have a look at the interiors of their farmhouse and Pockerley Old Hall might be a help.

 

[pdg87]

Thanks for the info, yeah I'm going to go to local library and see if they have any photos info on the property. I will need to do something with the windows to bring them up to modern efficiency standards as this is classed a conversion from commercial to domestic. I had really wanted to keep the windows and get them refurbished. I really don't like the look of secondary glazing and I have been warned against putting the slim double glazed panes in as they apparently don't last very long and get condensation..

The left hand side of the property was a later addition (you can just see the join if you look closely) It used to be a drive through for these farm houses.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

If it's listed there's an exemption from the building regulations in respect of window efficiency. An overhaul and draught-stripping should be all they need.

 

[Owain]

I make no comment about your choosing an interior wall finish which will make it look like you're living in an unconverted cow-shed, but if you like the appearance of the stones when wet but not when dry then you need to apply a clear sealant/lacquer which will provide the wet-look appearance.

 

[88v8]

Have to agree with the others as regards the wall. To whatever extent is necessary, repoint it in lime (NHL2) & sharp sand, then two coats of lime plaster; if the first coat has added hemp that will add a tiddly modicum of insulation. The wall was never meant to be exposed and its builders and original owner would be horrified to see it like that.
You might want to leave a couple of square feet bare to remind you why you plastered it and deter future owners from knocking the plaster off again.

Windows... depending how damp the house is.... there may be no dpm nor dpc?....- do you have a hygrometer?..... be wary of stopping up 'draughts' , they also constitute ventilation that may be essential to the health of the building and its occupants.

Ivor

 

[Zebra]

Where's MdB? He has exposed internal stone walls, and although not perhaps authentic, they look very nice.

 

[MatthewC]

pdg87

You are getting some good advice form Gareth - he is a conservation officer by profession, so speaks with more authority than the rest of us!

So my other option is to get all of the stone walls lime rendered? One of the reasons I took this wall back was it had been plastered on top (not with lime) and there were some patched of damp. I had someone out and they said if I took it back to the stone and lime re pointed them it would be okay damp wise.

That advice is correct (the dampness goes hand in hand with the non-lime plaster) but it will look better if you re-plaster with lime, and don't bother too much about re-pointing except for filling any large holes. Probably most of us here would not have shot blasted the stone either - you might have destroyed a lot of the lime pointing.

if you like the appearance of the stones when wet but not when dry then you need to apply a clear sealant/lacquer which will provide the wet-look appearance.

...but which will adversely affect the breathability of the wall, and most of us would consider that it would look very poor as well as being pretty irreversible - think of those internal painted brick fire places from the 70s - what can you do apart from remove it entirely and start again?

Matthew

 

[angrybird]

Where's MdB? He has exposed internal stone walls, and although not perhaps authentic, they look very nice.

I agree with you on this one zebra,Mdb's stone walls may not be to everyones taste but I think he's done a great job lime pointing them and I love them

 

[pdg87]

Thanks again for the comments, I think I will be going with lime plaster back over them . But keen to see any photos MdB or anyone else for curiosity?

This is fireplace is the living room, anyone have any ideas what the stone fireplace surround would be made from, it seems to be some sort of sand stone, but it place just looks like concrete, also unsure why the grooves would have been put in?

Any suggestions/picture inspiration on how it could be finished?

 

[mivec]

The area at the side of our inglenook where our front door is has it all going on…
Exposed stone and brick, lime washed stone and brick and rendered and lime washed stone and brick. It should give you a good idea of what your stone will look like if you lime wash it and how much more consolidated it becomes.







It was all covered with modern plaster which we have removed. We have try to keep it as we found it or found evidence of how it was. It's a bit of a muddle and has been altered a lot over the years. It would have originally been timber framed down to ground level which has been replaced with brick. The stone was never part of the structure and was added later when part of the house was pulled down, this would have been a passage way to another room but is now the end of the house (that's another story in itself).

The exposed stone has been left for a practical reason rather than aesthetic and the plan is to plaster it eventually. This corner was quite damp and the stone has been left to help and monitor the drying out process. The inglenook has back to back hearths with the back one now sealed up. The fear is that it has been filled with rubble that is acting like a big sponge. Over a prolonged period we should get a good idea of what is going on.

 

[pdg87]

Thanks for the pictures mivec, a combination of lime washed stone and lime render works well, that may be an option I go for. Nice flooring aswell, any more info on that? Do you just have that flooring in the entrance hall?

 

[GRB]

Hi pdg87

I'm also in the North-East and have very similar fireplaces and limestone rubble walls. The lintels and uprights are buff coloured sandstone, and some have been tooled or 'ridged' to take a thin coat of plaster I presume. The groove on the inside of the uprights and lintel was where the front of the range was slotted in.