Interesting documentary

[plasticpigeon]

http://rclvideolibrary.com/2012/12/08/why-beauty-matters/

 

[JoceAndChris]

Fascinating argument - will watch.

I kind of agree but beautiful work on houses depended on a culture of the rich exploiting the poor. The craftsman of today has a far better standard of living and works fewer hours. The well off have fewer lovely bespoke items as a result, and when it comes to period properties a lot of the original designs are nigh on impossible to have made as they'd take too long and cost too much in materials to be justifiable.

When you combine that with a cheap global market for your goods and an exploding population then you end up with compromises like Baratt boxes and Ikea furniture.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to have a few more twiddles on things, more tassels, more elephants, more velvet and carved wood, statuary and finials and pompoms. And to have people who are designing these things paying a proper respect to classical and antique composition and not doing things like shoving sash windows right under the roof line.

 

[88v8]

Exploiting... huh.
If it weren't for the 'rich', a term susceptible to definition, there would have been no craftsmen and would be none now, so the beauty that craftsmen can create would be lost to the world along with their skills, everyone living in a Communist utopia no doubt.
The 'rich' support a pyramid of craft which creates lasting beauty for those discriminating enough to appreciate it, and provides satisfaction and employment to those involved, whose work may survive long after they themselves are forgotten.
Or at least, some rich; one might wonder about second-division footballers and their wives.

And as to 'justifiable' depends who's doing the justifying. If I'm rich enough and want something enough then I can justify anything. Taj Mahal... Hearst Castle... Waddesden... Faberge eggs... Inequality? bring it on...

And, justify on logical grounds living in a draughty damp stone shack, and leaving a beautiful dry 1920s house to do so.

Ivor

 

[DJH]

Waddesden. Made some lions heads for there many years ago. I have to say that I was delighted that there were 'wealthy men' when I was in business as a lot of them seemed to like what I did and I received numerous commissions for work all of which I was proud and pleased to do. As a 'country boy' I considered myself very lucky to work on and go to places, properties and countries I could only dream of.

Doug from stormy Tipperary

PS When I'm up and running with my scanner thingy I'll look out a picture of those lions.

 

[Moo]

My favourite definition of successful people:

People who spend their days doing something they really enjoy doing and that gives them great satisfaction, and someone pays them for doing it.

(It doesn't mention how much they get paid.)

 

[Lime]

I think the exploitation argument confuses art with the artisan.
Art and the production of art is nothing to do with exploitation.
Any exploitation that may be drawn into the production of art is in the real world already.

I completely agree with Scruton.
His comments on architecture ring particularly true.

Also the "art in a skip" argument is compelling and demonstrates what is art or beauty in a very simple way.

 

[robgil]

I dont think wealthy people 'created' good craftsmen, they just paid them for their work. These people would have been doing it anyway regardless of how much they were getting paid.Quite a few artists didnt sell anything until long after their deaths.

I also dont think art has to be about beauty, importance can play a part as well.

 

[Lime]

I also dont think art has to be about beauty, importance can play a part as well.

Importance as in great significance or value?
That rules out nearly all modern art as described by Scruton.
Of course I would not equate artistic value with a financial one.
Monetary worth is not an attribute of art at all whereas the feeling generated in the mind that we call beauty most certainly is.

 

[robgil]

Significance Lime, for instance the markings on the entrance stone at NewGrange, not really beautiful, not really craftsmanship compared to works of art of the same period but still hugely important.

 

[Lime]

Significance Lime, for instance the markings on the entrance stone at NewGrange, not really beautiful, not really craftsmanship compared to works of art of the same period but still hugely important.

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
While the markings do not visually engender the feeling of beauty within me (as I perceive it on a conscious level) they do raise more fundamental feelings, perhaps subconscious feelings, within me.

Put another way, using the skip test, I would rummage in the skip and pull it out.

 

[robgil]

Ha ha, so would I but I would struggle to pass it off to Mrs Robgil as art if i were to hang it above the fire place.

 

[Lime]

Ha ha, so would I but I would struggle to pass it off to Mrs Robgil as art if i were to hang it above the fire place.

I agree, I would not see it fitting in indoors.
However the design would look really good in the garden when placed amongst foliage.
It has a natural look about it.

 

[danny]

Thanks for that link, I'll hopefully watch it later.