insurance again.

[robgil]

i am really having trouble getting insurance quotes on this cottage guys , most brokers don't want to know.
its usually because of the work that needs to be done to it. roof , floors , lowering outside ground level and the survey mentioned possible subsidence among other things.
any idea as to what i can do?

also , does this mean that in future should i need to do any substantial repair work that my insurance will be void?

they have told me they would have no problem insuring me when the work is complete , but not during. seeing as the work may take the best part of a year before its all done having an uninsured house for this length of time , or for any length of time would be madness.
i cant insure it as a building site because i will be living there and it wont really be a building site as such anyway.
has anyone else had this problem?

 

[Flyfisher]

Have you tried NFU and La Playa (see PPUK home page)?
Both quoted for our house even though I explained it required a lot of work and would have scaffolding around it.

A survey stating "possible subsidence" sounds rather too vague and less than helpful. It could be the survey company trying to cover themselves but I would certainly push them for something more definite. Perhaps explain to them the problems their vague report is giving you regarding insurance and insist on something more definitive, like distinguishing between historical but non-active movement and 'real' active subsidence. Accepting a higher excess can sometimes help.

Voiding your insurance cover is certainly a risk if you don't declare all 'material facts', but providing you do this there should not be a problem. Assuming you can get cover in the first place.

 

[robgil]

i have tried nfu who backed away almost as soon as i mentioned the house needed work. i have yet to try la playa but i will hopefully do that in the morning.
the survey was quite good but as you said , a little vague in places (quite important places some of them).
do i need an engineers report on the subsidence or can i get a builder to confirm it as just a rotten sole plate? i dont think the surveyor could confirm this without hacking off render to see the plate underneath , either way we will still need insurance before we try to repair it , its a bit of a catch 22.

the survey reads as

there has been some subsidence affecting the front left hand corner. whilst externally cracks have been made good and painted over we noted that there was some fracture cracks visible internally above the front door. this indicates that there is inadequate foundation for the ground conditions. the crack needs to be monitored in case underpinning needs to be carried out.

 

[Flyfisher]

Was the surveyor someone thoroughly experienced with old properties? (I believe there is a RICS qualification for such things; perhaps one of the resident experts will confirm this in due course).

I imagine that a report by a surveyor/structural engineer would carry more weight than a builder's statement but, in either case, I can't see how anyone can fully determine the state of the sole plates without removing some of the render.

 

[robgil]

perhaps then the only solution to getting cover is to get cover that does not include subsidence until this problem is sorted. i do feel that subsidence cover on a house of this kind is quite important due to the nature of its construction. i have no real idea as to how deep the brick plinths go down but i assume its quite shallow.

the surveyor did say he was clued up on this kind of house and used wording to the tune of 'sympathetic restoration' and one paragraph reads that many people gut old houses like this to modernise them and this should not be the case with this cottage due to its original internal features. so i am guessing he had some experience in this field. he also mentioned the concrete flooring may be causing the saturated plinths. i think he did a good job but i think i may well need to ask him a few questions with the more vague parts of the survey.

 

[masochists-r-us]

We also tried NFU who wouldn't touch us until the works are completed.We went with Ecclesiastical via Bruford Valance in the end, but admittedly we don't have subsidence to contend with. There was an interesting prog on Radio 4 about this very issue the other day. The expert suggested getting the insurance co either to make an exclusion for claims for subsidence altogether or to get them to accept a voluntary excess amount for any claim related to subsidence. Hopefully, you will get one of the period property insurers to accept one or other of these options. In any case, based on our experience I would avoid any mainstream Insurance companies. Direct Line quote was double that of our current insurer.
Good luck.

 

[robgil]

i will have another ring around tomorrow if i get time , i am off up north (to suffolk ) tomorrow so i may not get the chance, but cover , not including subsidence looks to be the best option.

 

[Penners]

I've no personal experience of these:-

http://www.renovationzone.com/

http://www.ukinsurancenet.com/renovation-insurance.asp

Given the amount of work needed on your house, I wonder whether you would qualify as a "self-builder"?

http://www.self-builder.com/sb3/insurance/site-insurance-why-choose-us.aspx?gclid=CLvyttaPhZsCFU0B4wod7GSUoA

http://www.selfbuildzone.com/ch_4.aspx

 

[robgil]

its more a restoration than a new build Penners which might make it more of a risk perhaps?
thanks for the links though , the more ammo in my arsenal the better.
i didnt get a chance to ring round today , ive spent all day tyre kicking soggy plinths. i will get round to it though hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[Penners]

its more a restoration than a new build Penners

I appreciate that, but I think it might be worth asking self-build insurers whether they would cover a project like yours. If you're having trouble getting insurance, you need to examine every possibility.

 

[robgil]

indeed you are right Penners , i am sure these insurance companies will insure other kinds of projects and not just self builds.
i will give them a call and see what they can offer.

 

[DaveBrigg]

We're insured with More>Than, who didn't mind the age or that we were not living here for the first couple of months while essential repairs were done. However, I imagine that no insurer will cover you for possible subsidence when you have a survey which reports subsidence. You need a policy which excludes this, or a more detailed survey. You might be happy that the house is not about to fall into a hole, but the person sat in an office a hundred miles away can only go on the official paperwork.

 

[Iain P]

All depends how much you want to pay! Many mainstream insurers will not take a risk with a subsidence comment even if you are happy to exclude subsidence from the cover (I have just been through this recently as I have an old stables attached - premiums are too small for them to mees about with bespoke wordings). Aviva (Norwich Union) may be amenable but likely you would need to go for one of their High Net Worth (ie extensive cover )policies, or possibly Hiscox (on their 606 policy). Any decent broker can access these or direct - they should also be happy to insure through extensive building works subject to disclosure of what exactly is being done and possibly a small additional premium (it cost me £ 75 extra with Hiscox, and I had plumbing, rewiring, extension, a well to contend with and all sorts on a Georgian timber framed and brick house). Failing that you may be able to find a smaller more specialist insurer, but I had no luck when I tried 18 months ago

 

[AMc]

IMHO you need self build insurance for a renovation and a separate contents policy for your possessions. The self build will take care of the elements that normal buildings insurance covers + liability for personal accidents, hired tools and a bunch of other things.

Unless you are planning on handing over the entire project to a main contractor then you are a self builder. You should also go and set up trade accounts with your local builders merchants - you will need to buy stuff and if you have a trade account you can order on the phone, get stuff delivered and pay on invoice.

I used these guys. They wanted to know what we were planning (reroof, knocking down a vinery and rebuilding in new wood, taking out a redundant chimney and section of wall and replacing with steel beams). I filled in a few forms, handed over £1500 and got 18 months cover + legal cover too.
http://www.buildstore.co.uk/finance/buildcare.html

I would have a look through some copies of the selfbuild magazines too to get an idea of what you're letting yourself into.
I like Homebuilding & Renovation but after 18 months I'd read all I needed to. http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/

Also if you're house has been unoccupied for more than 2 years you may qualify for reduced rate VAT. You need to establish that and make sure any VAT registered business charge the correct rates. You may also need to avoid taking up residence or declaring it as your principal private residence for tax until you've confirmed it qualifies.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_PublicNoticesAndInfoSheets&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_CL_000513#P807_77254