Industrial Vacuum Cleaner

[Flyfisher]

I'm looking for a vacuum cleaner, or similar device, that I can use to clean out our attics. Not just the usual dust but loads of small bits of lime mortar that has fallen from the reed lining plus the usual small animal detritus etc etc.

I have an old vax that does a good job, but only until the filter clogs with dust, which is before the tub is half full, so I'm spending more time cleaning the filter than cleaning the attic.

I don't even need to collect the stuff; I'm quite happy to use a long hose and just eject it all into a big bin or similar. I guess I'm looking for an 'air equivalent' of a water trash pump.

I found this unit, which looks like the sort of thing I'm after, but their technical support people were not sure about overloading the motor if the 100mm hose was reduced down to something like a normal vacuum cleaner hose.

I might still give it a try but thought I'd ask here first. Any other ideas?

 

[skier-hughes]

Why would you need to reduce the size of the hose?

I'm going to strip all the oddments of insulation out of our loft this year - hopefully - and I'm going to try the one I got from Little Miss Penners, like this
http://www.karcher.co.uk/product.php?pr=201

 

[Flyfisher]

A 100mm hose won't get into many of the areas between joists etc. It's these areas I specifically want to clear so that there is good airflow around the wood.

The advantage of the Axminster model is that I can remove the filter and fit an extension hose to vent the fine dust outside, while the big dustbin collects the bigger rubbish.

Well, that's the theory - I just wondered what other people use. I can't be the only one here with filthy old attics (and parts of the house arent much better ).

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Flyfisher,

I can see where you're coming from with your 'air pump' idea, but I don't think it's a practical solution. The fine dust & debris has got to end up somwhere, and if you just vent it outside it's going to make a hell of a mess downwind. Also, the kind of device shown is designed for high volume-low pressure movement of low density debris like planer waste and shavings, so would probably not generate enough suction to lift heavier stuff like mortar / plaster debris. Reducing down the hose size would further reduce available suction. I've experienced all this with my various workshop dust extractors.

For the kind of work you describe I have a big Numatic vacuum (big brother to Henry) which is just excellent. Most importantly the filter bags are readily available and cheap, unlike the bags for many industrial extractors. Fitted with a 5m hose, or two hoses joined together it will suck from all sorts of inaccesible places. All the muck is contained and easily disposed of.

Axminster's own brand machines e.g. ARXP470 appear to share filters & accessories with Numatic machines, so could be a good bargain buy.
Alternatively, a good hire shop should have kit designed for handling concrete dust if you feel the need for something more powerful.

 

[Penners]

I suspect that the Axminster unit that you've found might end up causing you as much frustration as the Vax that you're currently using. It filters down to 1 micron, and - if my assumption is correct - does this with a filter pad stretched across the top of the dustbin, under the motor. I think you would find that such a fine filter would clog very quickly, and you would constantly be taking the thing apart to clear the filter.

Do you think you might be better off with something like this? It benefits from having a less fine filter (it's primarily designed for chippings and medium/coarse dust rather than very fine dust). And if the filter bag (the one that stands up vertically on top) does get a bit clogged, you can just pummel it in situ to persuade the majority of the dust to unstick and fall down into the lower catch bag. Much more convenient than having to dismantle anything.

On the minus side, it's not as mobile as a conventional vacuum cleaner, so getting it up into your attic could be a bit of a struggle.

The 100mm hose can be stepped down with something like this to enable you to use a smaller diameter hose to get into crooks and nannies.

Food for thought, anyway.

 

[MdB]

I use a Dyson with the belt removed from the base, the handle removed from the top and the filters removed. It will pick up large pea sized pieces of mortar though larger bits will block it and some of the dust escapes due to the lack of filters but I often repeatedly fill its collection jug thing without any problems. The amount of rubbish I've put through it has completely scratched the collection jug but I picked it up from free cycle so I don't mind what I use it for.

 

[grays85]

I'm a naturalist ...(not naturist!!) i'd prefer to wear a mask and get up there with a brush and pan and bucket if you get a water sprayer , you can spray the area first to keep the dust down. and then it's easier and quieter and you keep the cost down.. nice as pie..

 

[Penners]

nice as pie..

Mud pie, presumably?

 

[Gervase]

I use a Makita 440, which will take 30 odd litres of dust and rubble (or 20 litres of water) and has a 1Kw motor which will suck the chrome off a towbar. It's also got a switched socket so yu can plug in a tool and have the dust extraction come on when the tool is switched on. It's perfect with a mortar rake and electric plane.

 

[Flyfisher]

I can see where you're coming from with your 'air pump' idea, but I don't think it's a practical solution. The fine dust & debris has got to end up somwhere, and if you just vent it outside it's going to make a hell of a mess downwind.

I share your concern; I guess it depends how effective the cyclone separator is. I'm not too concerned about venting dust to the wind but don't really want to spew debris everywhere.

Also, the kind of device shown is designed for high volume-low pressure movement of low density debris like planer waste and shavings, so would probably not generate enough suction to lift heavier stuff like mortar / plaster debris. Reducing down the hose size would further reduce available suction. I've experienced all this with my various workshop dust extractors.

Yes, another concern. Thanks for the practical feedback.

For the kind of work you describe I have a big Numatic vacuum (big brother to Henry) which is just excellent.

I looked at some of these and they certainly looked the part. Perhaps I'm too fixated on looking for a filter-free solution, probably because that's the source of my frustration with the vax.

I suspect that the Axminster unit that you've found might end up causing you as much frustration as the Vax that you're currently using. It filters down to 1 micron, and - if my assumption is correct - does this with a filter pad stretched across the top of the dustbin, under the motor. I think you would find that such a fine filter would clog very quickly, and you would constantly be taking the thing apart to clear the filter.

If your assumption is correct then I absolutely agree. It didn't occur to me that the filter might be across the top of the dusbin, I had assumed it was wholly contained in the large (removeable) cylinder attached to the output - hence my thought about venting to the outside.

I was considering the Axminster unit because of its subsequent use in the workshop, but if it's not suitable for 'rougher' work then perhaps hiring is the way to go. I don't plan to regularly clean the attics after all!

Food for thought indeed. Thanks for all the comments.

 

[Flyfisher]

I use a Makita 440, which will take 30 odd litres of dust and rubble (or 20 litres of water) and has a 1Kw motor which will suck the chrome off a towbar. It's also got a switched socket so yu can plug in a tool and have the dust extraction come on when the tool is switched on. It's perfect with a mortar rake and electric plane.

That looks pretty good, especially the auto-switch-on feature, and with a very useful 30L capacity. I'm very tempted, given your endorsement.

But it also looks very similar to my vax (paltry 8L capacity but 1300W motor) and the problem is not power it's the clogging filter. How does your Makita fare in this respect?

 

[Gervase]

It has a two-stage filter - a paper one, like a car air filter, and then a big muslin-like insert that stops a lot of the crud clogging up the paper filter. You can also fit disposable paper bags that hold about 20 litres and are just chucked away when they're full.

 

[Geoff Flegg]

Depends how much you want to spend really - a Makita item is great but won't be cheap - and how much you'll use it after this job. I've got an ancient metal Henry cleaner, not the more modern plastic one, and it's as tough as old boots - you can buy bags for it, though I don't bother, I just bang the large filter that goes between the rubbish and the motor on the side of the bin when I empty it!

I've had it for years. A gas fitter I know uses one every day for getting all the rubbish out of back boilers and general clearing up, he swears by it.

You might be able to get one off Ebay.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks Gervase. I take it that you don't spend all your time cleaning the filters . . . which is my objective too!

Geoff, your comments are making me think more about my vax. Perhaps the filter is just too fine. I'm not using a bag either and was wondering if this could be the problem, but your experience would suggest not.

I wonder how tolerant my vax would be to a coarser filter? Perhaps I'll raid my wife's stocking drawer and have a little play tomorrow - er, if you see what I mean.

 

[elm]

We bought one of these http://www.camvac.co.uk/. We've had it about a year and it's coping well.

 

[Anita]

My partner uses one of these (http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/505031) as a blower for his forge and it seems to be quite a robust and hardworking wet & dry vaccum that blows as well as sucks.

It is advertised as suitable for workshop use, and at just under £40 it's not a lot of money to spend as an experiment!

 

[NT]

I use a domestic cyclone for building dust & debris, it copes fine. The great majority of the material never meets any filter.


NT

 

[Flyfisher]

Just to follow up, I spoke to Axminster about the unit in my original link and the only filter is on the exhaust vent and it can be removed and located remotely if desired. So that was good, but they said that the suction power would likely not be sufficient for my application, as Andrew pointed out in his reply.

So, I decided on Gervase's Makita 440 suggestion (I like the auto switch-on feature for use with tools).

But I also tried modifying the filter in my existing vax machine. Unfortunately, stockings were off (so to speak!) but I found an old net curtain and replaced the filter with 4 layers of this.

Well, I certainly didn't have any clogging problems after that but, as you can imagine, the amount of dust spewed out was substantial. However, I was able to do most of the cleaning up work from the outside of the roof and with the breezy weather the dust was not a problem and with no clogging I was able to fill the vax easily and quickly.

But it's definitely an outdoor solution so I think I'll be ordering a Makita 440 in due course.

Thanks for all the comments.

 

[chuckey]

I have a 25 year old aqua-vac. It can use a canister filter (£6) which lasts about 10 minutes picking up old lime dust :shock: . The other filter was a foam one for wet'n dry use. This was excellent for building use, motor blows a bit of dust about, but the filter lasted 26 years. What happened to the filter?, well a bl***y mouse crept up the tube and took a liking to the foam and bit several 1" holes in it :evil: . Not to be defeated by a mouse I went and bought some 1/2" thick upholstry foam (£2 /sq yard) and made a nice new filter (Evostik works well on it).
Any one got any ideas about where I can get the metal case re-welded? :roll:
Frank

 

[MdB]

I caught a mouse in our kitchen last night inside a box of icecream cones it was working its way through. We released it near to the local stream and it ran straight to the bridge and jumped into the stream (3m drop). I didn't realise mice could swim so well, the water didn't slow it down at all and it seemed as happy in the water as out.