If you ordered oak boards from a sawmil?

[robgil]

Would you expect it to arrive cut to the dimensions you asked for? Some boards arrived today and they are all over the shop, most are over by a few mil so i can always plane them but one should have been 140 mil by 4000 and at one end its 140 mil and its 134 mil on the other end.
Is this normal for unplaned oak, do i need to over exaggerate my measurements in future to compensate?

 

[skier-hughes]

That to my mind is poor.
I've had lots of oak deliveries and on the whole when I've asked for sawn to size it's been pretty much spot on all the time. If there is a bit of doubt on quality, such as knots, then they have often sent over long pieces so we can cut off what we don't want.
My last delivery though, which came from the same company as all the others, but after they'd gone into receivership and started back up as a new company, was quite poor. I shan't be using them again and am now looking for a new supplier.

Lots of the sawn was way off sizes, although it was all over sized. As most of our work very much make to fit a lot of teh wood needs to be cut to size on site, so it wasn't too much of a worry, but some of the planed to size was also not good, and that has always been spot on before.

I returned some of mine to be redone, one piece, the top for the dresser went back 3 times as I wasn't happy with it.

 

[Penners]

Milling timber is not a precise science, as I'm sure the supplier would be quick to tell you. Some variation in dimensions is to be expected.

But I reckon 6mm undersize is outside tolerable limits. I should complain.

 

[robgil]

I think i might give them a buzz , under size i thought was a bit suss, its not a critical piece though so i probably will be able to get away with it.
My fear is i will be ordering some sill plates and timber to scarf into rotten studs and it would help if it were spot on , but then again this would need to be kiln dried wouldnt it? i dont think they do kiln dried anyway.

 

[Penners]

i will be ordering some sill plates and timber to scarf into rotten studs and it would help if it were spot on , but then again this would need to be kiln dried wouldnt it?

No - I wouldn't use kiln dried for that. I'd use green or "old felled" (that is, timber that has been lying around for a year of two). Old felled might be best the plate, so as to reduce sectional shrinkage.

I wouldn't get too hung up on getting a precision size-match to your old plate and studs, either. If anything, you want to be a wee bit oversize (in section, not length), so that the timber will shrink to size as it dries.

The advantage of green oak is that it's much easier to work. If you're pegging the joints, it's also an advantage to have the peg holes shrink slowly, so that the pegs are really tight.

You may get a few cracks and a bit of movement over the years, but nothing that will affect the integrity of the structure. It's called "character", and people pay extra for that, don't they? :wink:

 

[AMc]

Depends a bit - I ordered some custom skirting boards from the local building and timber merchant. They cut the mouldings to the same pattern as my original ones at a depth I couldn't find off the shelf. A couple of boards were slightly battered and had more knots that I would have expected.
I was about to call and complain when I realised they'd sent me about 25% more than I'd ordered at which point I changed my mind.

I think 6mm under is off though - you can alway saw a bit more off but sawing it back on again seldom works out.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

robgil,

It depends a lot on what you asked for from the supplier. If you stated that dimensional accuracy was important, and ideally gave a tolerance to work to, then you'd have some basis to reject anything outside of those limits. However, for sawn timber I'd never expect any serious accuracy, and 6mm out on a length of 4m is nothing out of the ordinary. The merchant will probably tell you likewise; sawn timber is generally going to be cut down further and probably planed up before use, so dimensional accuracy is not usually an issue. It's often a good idea to buy slightly oversize anyway to allow for removal of sapwood, banding marks, transit damage or other edge defects.

 

[middi]

sawn timber , especially the hardwoods, is never accurate.

One needs to ask for " prepared" or "planed" to their specified dimensions with hardwoods. For softwoods (or treated timbers) it is usual to ask for "regulalarised" if accurate dimensions are required

Middi

 

[robgil]

Thanks guys , that all makes sense. Next time i will be more specific if i need to be or over calculate the dimensions.

 

[Penners]

I still think the board that is 6mm undersize is beyond reasonable variances.

 

[robgil]

So do i Penners but i can get away with it so i may as well use it. In any other circumstances they would be coming to pick it up.
I remember buying some heaters from screw fix that turned out to be rubbish and didnt work properly. I called them up and explained and they said i could return them (i collected them from their shop in the first place), not likely i said , my nearest branch is miles away. They sent a courier out the next day to pick them up and i got a refund. I can be a nightmare customer when i want to be , especially when i know im right. :lol:

 

[biffvernon]

As with so many things in the building business, it's important that you both understand what is expected. That's often easier said than achieved. You and the saw-miller both want to be on good terms at the end of the deal, so you can do another deal next year. If one of the pieces is too undersized for it to be worth making do with, tell him that you're sorry you didn't make it clear to him that the exact dimension was important, it was all your fault but could he please supply an extra piece. If he values your custom and his reputation he will probably chuck the extra piece in for free.

 

[Penners]

That's a fair analysis of the situation. And I do agree that it's worth cultivating a good timber supplier.

 

[robgil]

I was going to get on with this job today guys but not only are the sizes a bit out , my straight fascia boards have been cut like bananas.
four out of five boards are like this. Would this be accepted as normal guys? I really wasn't expecting this.

 

[Wren]

You'd think that ordering wood from a sawmill would be straightforward but it's not. In my case I had drawn a diagram showing exactly what I wanted and faxed it. So when the wrong stuff arrived we sent it straight back, didn't even unload it. Which was actually heartbreaking because they had done a really lovely job, but for our purposes it was not useable. I beat myself up afterwards thinking could I have made it even clearer, and they are a small local sawmill (the big chain we tried first wasn't interested in our bits and pieces). Let the dust settle (bad pun) for a couple of months and then went back to them, asked him very nicely if we could have another go and paid him a good price.

 

[robgil]

It does have to go back this time I reckon, I really did expect them to cut it in a straight line. I understand cutting a 4 meter length can be tricky but surely a saw mill could achieve this.

 

[biffvernon]

There is a possibility that it was cut straight. Tension within the timber was then released by the banana impression. Not that that helps you.

The oak that I use is cut through and through - a tree trunk sliced up into boards but with the waney edge, the bark, left on. It's then stacked 'in stick' for three or four years before being used. By that time it's pretty stable so when I cut the sap wood off and create a straight edge it usually stays fairly straight.

It's a bit of a bugger using these natural materials. You just don't get this with uPVC.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

It's a bit of a bugger using these natural materials. You just don't get this with uPVC.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[robgil]

I think this was cut wrong , I cant see how it warped like this , I will get a photo if i get a chance tomorrow. I can see where the saw went out of line in the wood, on one of the bits its quite angular, its as if they cut it from one end half way through then came at it again from the other end.
If it is natural warping its gonna be a bugger to straighten it up.

 

[Penners]

I was going to get on with this job today guys but not only are the sizes a bit out , my straight fascia boards have been cut like bananas.
four out of five boards are like this. Would this be accepted as normal guys? I really wasn't expecting this.

Rob - I'm afraid that sawn green oak boards are never likely to be straight (they were bought just as sawn, weren't they?). And even if they come out of the saw straight, after several weeks lying around in very variable weather, they're unlikely to remain that way. Did you stack and stick them, as Biff mentions above?

If boards are planed in a four or five-head milling machine then a straightening head can be used. But sawn is always going to be unpredictable.