ideas and advice on results of strucutral survey

[beka]

Hi all,
I've just received the structural survey for a house we are hoping to buy. I think the surveyor hs done a good job - they specialise in period houses and their report was very thorough and easy to read with photo's etc.

I dont' have any problems with any of the works they have suggested but I'd love some input from clever bods here as to likely costs, anything I should consider in a period house etc etc.

Okay details of house: 3 story mid terrace built around 1846, we're fairly sure it used to be one big building part of the weaving industry in the town. probably some time in victorian era it got divided up into tall thin houses. Its basically a rectangle with 2 rooms on each floor, the front room is 13 ft square, the back room is 9ftx7.5ft and the stairs and landing take up the other slot. The front wall is dressed stone and the back is random stone, the roof is stone slabs and was replaced around 20-30 yrs ago.

It hasn't been touched really since around 1960 - being sold after an old lady passed away so there's loads to do but these are the strucutral things commented on.

repointing of brick chimney stack
replacement of cement flashings with lead flashings
replace/overhaul cast iron gutering
repointing of stonework to front and back to include crack stitching
Timber preservation treatment and minor repairs to structural timbers, timber boarding and sub-floor timbers (evidence of woodboring attack in roof timbers and flooring)
Installing ties to front and rear walls to connect to floor and party wall (this isn't urgent, more of a precuation because he said the house didn't appear to have standard lateral restraint due to arrangement of beams and joists)

Now there's two I'm less sure about,
Damp - when we looked round the house (which has been vacant for over a year with no heating) it felt VERY dry and warm - tbh it felt dryer than OUR house!
I'm personally of the opinion that once we repoint, sort out guttering etc we wont' have that much of a damp problem if any. Especially as the report says that alot of damp round windows is caused by rainwater penetration.
However the report also says "the ground floor walls are all experiencing rising damp" is this likely? it honestly didn't feel damp but is there anything else I can do to check it out further. As far as I can remember and see from the photo's we took and surveyor took the exterior groudn level is below the floor level but I'm not sure about ventilation bricks etc.

All the moment all the walls have multiple layers of wallpaper etc, we were planning on stripping it right back (and doing any additional wiring/radiator fitting etc) then replastering. Is it possible the 'rising damp' is simply rainwater penetration combined with unbreathable wall coverings?

Kitchen floor which surveyor thinks is flags onto earth there were very high moisture readings on kitchen floor (yes I know moisture readings are a load of b*******.
If it is then he recomends we take 'em up, excavate underneath, lay a new concrete floor inc dampproof membrane etc and then relay flags - so.....
do we need to do this? whats the likely cost? is there an easier/cheaper alternative? how do I find out if it really is damp?
I was actually hoping to put down a new solid wood floor throughout th open plan ground floor - is this still possible if its on top of concrete/earth.

The 'kitchen' is a small 1950's extension actually and we've already chatted to the conservation officer about taking it down and replacing it with something a bit more sympathetic (and ever so slightly larger - like the next door one!). If we're going to do this do we just ignore the floor and get costs for the new extension?

Come to that I know its a daft question in one way but anyone any ideas or experience of costs for a 6ftx8ft single story extension, have to be in stone or yellow brick with a pitched tiled roofline.

Sorry if this all sounds a bit niave, happy to do whatever research and additional surveys might be needed. We are taking it on as a renovation project so are prepared for a fair bit of work. Its our first listed house but we've been doing up and living in a late edwardian house for the past 10 years.

 

[Pford75]

I'm not a builder or surveyor myself, but have some experience with some of the things you mention. Other, more knowledgeable members will be along soon :wink:

Damp - If it feels fine to you and is not causing any noticeable symptoms (flaking paint or peeling wallpaper) I personally would leave it alone. Your assessment of fixing the guttering and pointing first is a good one. I would do this first, ensure proper ventilation and see if there is any damp then. It's also possible that the previous owner was very conscious of heating bills etc. and perhaps was not opening windows as often as might be good.

Timber treatment - most likely this is past infestation. I would not want chemicals sprayed around my house.

As a ballpark - extensions cost between £150-£200 per sq.ft depending on materials and level of finish (this would be for a finished shell...not your kitchen) Will vary depending on part of the country, availability of local builders, access etc.

You've not mentioned electrics....have these been done recently?

 

[beka]

wiring is over 20 years old, possibly over 30 or 40. We plan on a complete rewire and at the same time adding some new sockets etc.

Basically we are hoping to take the building back to what my BIL (builder) says is first fix state, and then work from a blank canvas, we need to ..........
put in central heating, rewire, replaster, take down stud wall, put in new stud walls, new bathroom suite, new ensuite (hopefully), reinsutlate loft and board out for storage, completly new kitchen (moving it to front of house), open up chimney breast and install woodburnign stove, new solid woodne floors on all levels, new staircase (ground floor to first floor only as we're opening it up and want lovely wood stairs going up)

and then we decorate!

I'm okay with costs etc for all of the above (have done most of it before and carried out a fair bit of he work ourselves too) but havn't really had to tackl/pay for structural stuff yet!

So regarding the timber infestation - how do I know if its old or new? isn't there a risk of the beams getting too damaged ot hold things up if they are eaten? can I simply replace the damaged timbers rather than spraying?

thanks for your help so far!

 

[Flyfisher]

Damp - when we looked round the house (which has been vacant for over a year with no heating) it felt VERY dry and warm - tbh it felt dryer than OUR house!
. . .
However the report also says "the ground floor walls are all experiencing rising damp" is this likely? it honestly didn't feel damp but is there anything else I can do to check it out further.

Did the surveyor use a 'damp meter' by any chance? I've already mentioned "The Rising Damp Myth" by Jeff Howell in another thread (http://www.askjeff.co.uk/books.php) and in it Howell describes the development and use of such meters in some detail, pretty much destroying their credibility in the process. The book even contains various quotes that are almost exactly the same as your one above, i.e. 'the house didn't seem damp but the survey said rising damp was present and now the mortgage company are insisting on a DPC to be installed'.

Given your circumstances it would be a very interesting and enlightening read.

 

[DaveBrigg]

We have stone flags in our kitchen which would probably register highly on the meter (especially around the sink area!) It doesn't seem to affect the walls though, and the room is lovely and cool in the summer whilst not feeling damp in the winter. If you've got to have something duarble enough to survive a little damp, stone takes some beating. The only downside is remembering to put on slippers on a winter morning.
Just out of curiosity, are the solid wood floors you plan to add, replacing wooden floorboards?

 

[beka]

I've been and has a look online regarding damp - it does seem odd that a house thats been standing empty for over a year, single glazed windows, with no heating left on should feel dryer and warmer than our existing house - occupied with GCH and an open fire. And actually there is (now) only 2 small areas of noticeable damp in our existing house.

I think I'm ignoring the report of rising damp, I'll do the exterior stuff - pointing, guttering and repair to window cills etc. Plus we're going to be replastering - and if needed I'll strip off old plaster/paint if it looks like its nonbreathable stuff.

re floors, yes there's existing timber floors but they are in poor condition - gaps, narrow splintered boards and a mismatch of stuff. I crave decent solid wood floors and in this new house hope we can 'treat' ourselves to that NOT horrid carpet!

I did actually wonder about underfloor heating - it would free up some space certainly in the smaller rooms.

I need to go and check but i 'think' the bit refered to as the kitchen is the 1950's extension - in which case we'll be using it primarily as a utility space/boot room until we have the spare cash for a new extension. So I don't need to worry about that floor.

OK having set my mind at rest to an extent about damp - there are two other recommended areas which I have no experience of.
Replacing timber joists and/or treating due to 'evidence of woodboring insect attack'
Inserting wall ties between party walls and front and rear elevations

any ideas?

 

[Penners]

likely costs, anything I should consider in a period house etc etc.

I have just one broad point to offer.

Whatever you get in the way of quotes, costs, calculations, guesstimates, etc. - they're not enough. It's almost inevitable that, whatever project you undertake, it will reveal other, previously unseen problems that need dealing with.

After four renovation projects of my own, I would always add a minimum of 50% to any budget, to cope with these extras - and even that can sometimes be insufficient.

I don't mean to scare you. You might be lucky and have none of these additional costs. But it would be unwise to commence the project without being aware of the possibility (probability?) that you will.

 

[Matt Green]

Replacing timber joists and/or treating due to 'evidence of woodboring insect attack'

The only way to treat the evidence of wood-boring beetle attack is to fill the holes in. You can spray and spray and spray... and the evidence wont go away.

 

[Penners]

Such wisdom in one so young.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Wonders if he can be persuaded to marry one of her daughters...............

 

[skier-hughes]

I've got a son.............. just in case...... you know........

 

[FamilyWiggs]

After four renovation projects of my own, I would always add a minimum of 50% to any budget, to cope with these extras - and even that can sometimes be insufficient.

And that applies to all aspects of the project - money, time, self-inflicted work related injuries, grey hairs, etc.

 

[Cloudscape]

The description you give of the property - a divided building - reminds me of somewhere I used to live. Are you happy with the way it's been divided? I'm only saying this because I used to live in a similar-sounding building. The party walls were one brick thick, and quite a few floor/ceiling joists crossed from one property to the next. The main problem with that was sound transmission and fire risk... and the day a neighbour decided to try to level their bathroom floor, wrecking mine in the process.

 

[Penners]

grey hairs, etc.

I wish I had grey hair.

 

[skier-hughes]

Bet you wish you has eyes as well!!!!!!

 

[beka]

well thanks - I think. Not sure how my request for help ended up being about hair? but hey - you live and learn. I guess I'm better of on a different forum - sorry guys didn't realise this was more of a chat forum.

 

[Moo]

Beka - I agree that we do sometimes get a little silly. But I wouldn't describe this as a 'chat' forum by any means; chatty, yes, but you've already been given quite a lot of useful advice by the culprits and will be given a lot more if you hang around.

xx M

 

[Ian Bond]

Here's a link to a useful primer:

http://www.ihbc.org.uk/publications/hard_copy/stitch_in_time/SPAB PDF's (D)/Stitch in Time.pdf

Plenty more advice available on the PPUK website too. And from SPAB, and so on.

Rising damp - you can't see any evidence, and it may be just a ruse to get you to carry out expensive work. As previous replies have explained, there are some useful books and articles on the myths of rising damp.

Ditto woodworm - my attic beams are riddled with flight holes from the '30s. The 1830s. Always worth checking if you suspect ongoing activity, but I think the Matt was hinting in his reply that it may not even be a problem, just evidence of past woodworm activity.

Kitchen flags - as long as they're not running with water and obviously damp, I'd leave em alone. I certainly would not rip them all up and shove concrete underneath. My flags are fine, unsealed with lime mortar pointing.

Mortar flashings. Well, it's traditional to finish the roof/stack abutments with a fillet of mortar around my area, rather than using lead. There may be lead soakers underneath the mortar flashing though. Is the roof actually leaking at the moment - any evidence of damaged/stained ceilings?

There are so many things that the surveys flag up, all of which could be problems, but not all currently are. Or not priorities to fix.

I haven't found a more useful / helpful forum for traditional buildings. You'll have to excuse the regular departures off course from the thread, and terrible humour. Just helps keep the mood a bit lighter. Most of the time.

If any of the answers people have given need more clarification, just ask again and highlight your main concerns. Someone will give a sensible answer eventually. In fact, you'll get loads of advice, and some of it will even be consistent/useful.



(just as Moo said, succinctly above)

 

[Moo]

There, Beka. Told you so.

xx M

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Becka, the forum has come to my rescue with good sound advice on many occasions so do stay around.

There has to be a bit of fun sometimes!