I won my case!

[JanieB]

Scary project. My husband died, intestate, 2 years ago and I've had to fight his children for our home. They already had most of the estate and decided to go for the house as well and put me in a retirement home or flat. They lost-ish. I have the home I paid over 50% for, for the rest of my life under the condition that I do certain works at my expense.

Fighting the case has taken ALL my money. I will need to take out a loan to do the required work. This means that the house has to make money. As, technically, the house belongs to my stepchildren, I cannot take out a secured loan. I need advice. I am very close to the area that was flooded in Oxfordshire, and getting advice/a builder is a figment of my imagination at the mo.

My idea is to run a B&B for 5-10 years to cover the loan. I am unwilling to compromise my home to 5* status but I need to find information re en-suites, planning permission (local council very unhelpful), building regs etc.

I went to the "National self build & Renovation Centre" last week and was advised to get a full architectural survey. The cheapest I can find is £750, nice work if you can get it. They can breeze through the house in less than an hour. I already know what the house is made of and its history, but this doesn't seem to be sufficient unless it is written down by a "professional".

I've tried surfing for information, but all I come up with are bathroom companies trying to sell BIG bathrooms. I need a very, very small en-suite in a Circa 220 year old house.

Do I need planning permission or building regs to replace my windows? I know the purists will hate this, I have beautiful original Georgian sash windows. I love their squiggly glass. BUT I live on a main road with no buffer and so close to a bus stop that the back of the bus pours fumes and noise into my sitting room. My neighbour two doors up has double glazed wooden sashes that are so close to the originals that you hove to peer at them to see the difference.

There's more but I will leave it for another time as this has been long enough for now.

 

[Nemesis]

Is this a listed building?

Why do you feel a 'full architectural survey' will mean someone 'breezing through the house' in less than an hour?

And why was this advice given?

Have you considered decent secondary glazing? I can't see how dg will stop fumes - decent draught proofing should help with that, and secondary glazing will cut out more noise that dg.

How many rooms do you envisage letting?


http://www.whodoiask.com/regulations/planning-permission-building-regulations.htm

http://www.bandbnews.co.uk/weblinks.htm

 

[JanieB]

That was quick. No, it's not a listed building, and this leaves me in a bit of a quandary. I am four doors away from our local conservation area and many of the buildings on our road are some of the oldest in our town. A house opposite me is the original inn (although now a private house) and is older that the two very famous ones in the centre. It is not listed, but it should be.

I've considered secondary DG and this is possibly feasable on the groundfloor. I suspect that as the wall on the first floor is single skinned, there isn't enough room for 2ndry DG. And cost is a factor. I am very, very skint. It has cost £85K to keep my home. I, and my children, are willing to do the labour on this project but I still need to pay the relevant fees to professionals (ahem) to get the work done.

I could put in plastic windows, rip out the beams and do all manner of awful things with impunity. I don't want to. I want to keep my home as I want it, but as it has to make money, I need to comply with the rules of opening a B&B.

 

[Nemesis]

Age and listing don't always go together, there are other things to consider.

You may find dg not as good at sound reduction as you think - I often stay in modern hotels with triple and the traffic keeps me awake. I have a friend who had quality secondary fitted recently and it has made tremendous difference, as the distance between the glazing is important.

Dg won't prevent fumes.

However - a full architectural survey will take more than an hour of breezing through a house, it's not a house history, and a survey of condition isn't a measured architectural survey.

Many professionals do a very good job.

Quite why you were given that advice I don't know.

Alterations will require Building Regulations approval at the very least.

How many rooms are you envisaging letting? Only one?

I wonder if you have also considered letting out a room to a student?

Post grads can be rather more sensible than undergrads!

 

[NT]

JanieB:

> under the condition that I do certain works at my expense.

it would sure help if you tell us what works you have to do & why, and what you dont.


> My idea is to run a B&B for 5-10 years to cover the loan.

I guess you've got no better option.


> I went to the "National self build & Renovation Centre" last week and was advised to get a full architectural survey. The cheapest I can find is £750,

why do you want one of those?


> I already know what the house is made of and its history, but this doesn't seem to be sufficient unless it is written down by a "professional".

Sufficient for what?


> I've tried surfing for information, but all I come up with are bathroom companies trying to sell BIG bathrooms. I need a very, very small en-suite in a Circa 220 year old house.

sounds like you need a builder, not a bathroom company. Why not look for an out of work one up north and put them up for the duration. Yes, a total pain, but you need to get it done, not want. With one of your unskilled assistants they should make short work of it all.


> Do I need planning permission or building regs to replace my windows? I know the purists will hate this, I have beautiful original Georgian sash windows. I love their squiggly glass.

completely the wrong advice.


> BUT I live on a main road with no buffer and so close to a bus stop that the back of the bus pours fumes and noise into my sitting room.

fumes are down to lack of draughtproofing, which can be installed from as little as £1. Nicer invisible draughtproofing costs nearer £2.

noise is solved by secondary glazing. The simplest SG is just a sheet of perspex or glass with some holes round the edge screwed on to the existing wood frame.

However I'm not clear why you consider this important at this point.

Is there a time frame on the must-do work?


> My neighbour two doors up has double glazed wooden sashes that are so close to the originals that you hove to peer at them to see the difference.

I cant see the sense in that route. You need to minimise outgoings rather than create them.


I've considered secondary DG and this is possibly feasable on the groundfloor. I suspect that as the wall on the first floor is single skinned, there isn't enough room for 2ndry DG.

doesnt make much difference, see above method. Framed sg can have frames that attach to the existing, 4" walls are not a problem.


> I am very, very skint.

which leaves me wondering why you want to spend all these monies.

> I, and my children, are willing to do the labour on this project but I still need to pay the relevant fees to professionals (ahem) to get the work done.

what fees, what professionals, for what? It would really help if you explained the situation.


> I need to comply with the rules of opening a B&B.

I'm wondering which rules you're referring to


Nemesis:

> I wonder if you have also considered letting out a room to a student?

much lower income than B&B though


NT

 

[Nemesis]

Yes - but b and b requires publicity and if for only one room may not have full occupancy. How much will the alterations cost, how much income will be generated?

I wouldn't be too happy paying much for b and b at somewhere on a road with a bus stop outside and it may put off others!

I wonder too about parking?

The b and b regs are different, depending how many rooms are let. I am sure Biff can elaborate.

Out of work builders up north? Not the good ones!

And Building Regs is still required and I wouldn't employ a builder without decent plans drawn up.

I still haven't a clue why a full architectural survey was suggested.

 

[skier-hughes]

Nemesis:

> I wonder if you have also considered letting out a room to a student?

much lower income than B&B though


NT

But a guaranteed income for a guaranteed time scale.



Let's hope this is a lesson for those who haven't written wills yet, or who live in a house and don't have both names on the deeds - which would have saved the £85k, as the house would have passed direct to the wife - or to those who think that ways of saving cash by becoming tenants in common etc is a good thing!!

 

[Nemesis]

I have a friend who works in conservation who lodged with someone in Oxford while he did his conservation MSc.

As you say - a guaranteed income, and no alterations to be made!

 

[JanieB]

To reply to the different points.

I have 2 rooms I can let. There is one very large one that can easily accomodate an en suite. It could also be a family room if the area of the ensuite is kept to a minimum.

The other room is currently an office, but I intend to turn back into a bedroom. It is next to the bathroom. It has one major problem that I was going to come to later. About 2 years ago my next-door-neighbour had some alterations done to his bathroom and I can now hear everything, and I mean everything, going on in there. Soundproofing needed. I don't know how he achieved this as these cottages are old with very thick walls.

I would prefer a B&B than any other type of tenant as I can choose when I have guests in the house. I only want an extra to my pension and to help pay for the loan. I don't want a stranger permanently installed in my home. I would like the choice of being able to use the rooms for my family when needed. In addition, I've done the research on this and owing to our local district councils policy over the last few years, we are seriously short of B&B's.

I do not WANT to spend the money, but it is a legal requirement of me keeping the house. Technically, there is no timescale, but the longer I leave it the higher the cost and the more difficult it will be for me to finance it. I also need to live in a house that is not a slum - which brings me to another point.

Before B died we were remortgaging the house to do the renovations. This is why I was not on the deeds, as the paperwork wasn't completed before he died. We had already had the plans drawn up. I am just adding a little to them to make the house more commercial. I have to pull down the current badly built kitchen extension and have a new (larger) one built.

As to the house being on the road, all the hotels and B&B's in the town are in the same situation. I do have off-road parking at the back of the house (and a fairly large and very pretty garden).

 

[skier-hughes]

I do not WANT to spend the money, but it is a legal requirement of me keeping the house. Technically, there is no timescale, but the longer I leave it the higher the cost and the more difficult it will be for me to finance it. I also need to live in a house that is not a slum - which brings me to another point.

Of course I ahven't seen the house, but if there is no timescale stipulated then if you can live with the bits that don't need doing, then forget about them. Work on the bits which will give you an instant return, then move on to what you'd like to do next.
What are they going to do in 10/20 years time?
If you have made a start they can't do anything?
You can live there until you die, then leave them to worry over the bits you haven't done.

 

[Lime]

A couple of comments said with the best of intentions.

but it is a legal requirement of me keeping the house. Technically, there is no timescale,

Then why hurry, if at all?
Let the family go hang!

Re the double glazing.
If there are a lot of similar premises on your road many will already have some sort of soundproofing.
If I were you, I'd ask around in your road and look at other peoples' solutions to this problem.
However if you like the old glass then your heart is already telling you that to change it would be wrong.
Anyway, a form of secondary glazing added to your existing windows would do the best job.
Modern ready-assembled double glazing is designed to keep the heat in, not the sound out.
The distance between the panes of glass is different for heat insulation compared to sound conduction.
The space required between the panes for least sound conduction is 11 inches, much bigger than for heat insulation.

 

[Nemesis]

So, basically, there is work which needs to be done for you to live in the house, ie the new extension, and some way of paying for that is needed? Is the old so bad?

If your heart is set on b and b, and plans are already drawn up for those, then why not contact the person concerned to add an en-suite to the plans?

Planning permission and building regs will have to be gone through regardless.

 

[JanieB]

The bit that is the legal requirement is the kitchen. It was very cheaply and badly stuck on the back of the house in 1981. Whilst the case with my stepchildren was going on, the roof fell in and I had to have it repaired. Although it now has a temporary weatherproof roof on it, it won't last for very long. I sincerely hope to live a very long time, if only to piss my stepchildren off for what they have put me through. I need, for my own comfort and convenience, to rebuild it.

This means changes in the heating and hot water systems. It would be sensible to have a "whole view" of what permissions I need to know how to go forward and what I can afford now and what I can leave to do later.

 

[JanieB]

The architect who drew up the plans has since retired.

 

[Nemesis]

Janie - it all sound bloody awful I have to say, and I send huge hugs and sympathy!

I would so love you to shaft them... live forever. Alcohol is a preservative.

 

[Flyfisher]

Assuming you own the property outright, what about some sort of "equity-release" loan to help with the financing?

Edit: Oops - just noticed the bit about your step-children "technically owning" the house. Still, you can see my thought process . . .

 

[JanieB]

My last post seems to have got lost in the ether.

Nemesis - I'm well into preservative tonight.

I joined this site before B died to get insight into how to sympathetically restore this house. I wasn't expecting to have to use it as part of my income.

Since B died, I have become a local councillor and sit on the planning committee. This site has given me a different outlook on the buildings in our historical town.

 

[Nemesis]

I'm busy making a heap of damson gin. It sounds so rural crafts...

Hmmm. It's not simple I fear.

I think but I'm not 100 per cent, that with only two rooms there are a whole heap of regs re b amd b you won't have to worry about. Try contacting the local tourism people to ask. I have no doubt Biff will be able to tell you more too. There's stuff about tax relief I am sure.

You clearly need to have drawn up fresh plans to include the en suite. Are you sure that you can't simply do one bedroom with the bathroom next door?

Now I'm a bit hazy on this, no doubt others will give more details, but in order to have permission for the extension, you might have to bring the whole building up to a higher standard in order to meet current regs.

Your step children sound bastards.

I wonder why the conservation area didn't include your houses?

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Janie,

Loads of sympathy, what a horrid situation.

Two things spring to my mind--is it at all possible that the 'steps' and yourself could be persuaded agree to sell up lock stock and barrel, divide the proceeds accordingly and you could then find yourself something in which to settle.

Alternatively is it possible to find somebody who could manage the entire project for you.

Is there some other hidden financial value to the property that has made them so determined to keep a hold.. i.e that it could be sold off for development and they make a profit out of the whole thing?

Take it slowly, prioritise your current plans and go one step at a time. The buildings regulation officer in your area maybe able to give you some helpful advice about the work you have identified. I also think that you can download planning and building regs information from your local council website.

Very Best of luck

 

[Pford75]

Might be worth looking at the Government's 'rent a room' scheme

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTa...talIncome/index.htm?cids=Google_PPC&cre=Money

I would caution however that B&B is not as simple as getting the room(s) ready....as Nemesis has pointed out, there are other things that go with this...advertising, accounting...possible need for a food hygiene certificate...H&S certificate for all of your appliances etc. (courtesy of our nany state gov't of course)

Are you really sure that this is the best way to make some money?[/quote]