How would you do it?

[HelenS]

Hello again.
I'm still trying to get some ideas/advice on how I can insulate the walls of my bathroom. There are 2 outside walls, taken back to the brick, and 2 internal walls. It is approx 2.4mtrs x 2mtrs and 3mtrs at the highest point, with an un-insulated sloping roof.
I have been told to use sheep's wool, someone has suggested pavadentro boards and someone else pavatherm boards.
I need to make a decision very soon. How have you guys insulated your walls? Any suggestions greatly welcome. :?
Sorry this thread is not as exciting and witty as thermals, can't think of how to make insulation sound sexy!!!!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Sorry this thread is not as exciting and witty as thermals, can't think of how to make insulation sound sexy!!!!

Wear thermals in the bath, then post a photo
(Sorry, someone will be along to answer the more serious question shortly, I'm sure)

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Nail Cadbury's Creme Eggs to the walls?

(Sorry, someone will be along to answer the more serious question shortly, I'm sure)

 

[Pford75]

One of the challenges with insulation is that it's thickness will change the dimensions of a room or can throw out profiles at skirting, cornice etc. So, I (being more concerned with with aesthetics) would start by working out where you are unrestricted on the thickness and where it will be a problem.

Faced with a similar dilemma in what will Be a kitchen at some stage, we chose to insulate externally and our LBC includes Pavatherm boards on the outside of the walls and then lime render. What finish is the outside of your house (since ours was already rendered, there was no noticeable change)?

If you decide to insulate internally, then the main factors are depth and cost. Sheep wool has it's plaudits, but is pricey. Celotex performs well and is easy to install, but is very thick.

I would also be careful about condensation in a bathroom. If you don't install a vapour barrier, then there is a risk of condensation on the cold side of the insulation (between it and the walls) which could remain unseen and cause problems.

 

[MdB]

My unexpert musings...

For bathrooms, the humidity levels can be so high, I think trying to make the whole wall breathable from one side to the other is a bad idea as you will end up with condensation in the insulation which will greatly reduce its performance. I would instead have a wall structure as follows (from outside in): breathable outside wall finish - main part of the wall - insulation - vapour barrier - internal wall finish (plasterboard / aquapanel / tiles etc). This allows moisture within the wall to escape via the outside surface but stops moisture from the bathroom getting into the wall.

To keep the thickness of the insulation down, the only choice is celotex or similar and as this is non breathable, there isn't a need for a vapour barrier. Wool is an option but it would need twice the thickness for the same performance (and would require the vapour barrier).

I am of course not following my own advice and will be insulating the outside of our bathroom walls. This will give a result which will mean that will likely end up with more condensation as the inside wall temperature won't rise anything like as quickly when somebody has a bath / shower. Lower inside wall temperature means higher condensation.

 

[Pford75]

the only choice is celotex or similar and as this is non breathable, there isn't a need for a vapour barrier.

Only true if you use jointing tape on all of the gaps and can eliminate any cracks around the edges of the celotex. Given the relatively low cost, I'd play safe and use a vapour barrier

 

[HelenS]

To Gareth Hughes - I'm very sorry but you will have to wait a long time for me to post a photo of myself in thermals in the bath because
a) I don't actually possess any thermals, I live a very deprived life
b) I don't have a bath

To FamilyWiggs - Don't be silly, If I nail Cadbury's creme eggs to the wall it would make a horrid sticky mess on the walls as the goo dripped out. Would using just chocolate work instead and would it have to be milk or white?

To - Pbord75 - Are you pleased with the pavatherm boards? Someone suggested Pavadentro boards applied on the internal walls, I've looked on the Mike Wye website and they do look interesting.

To - Mbd - If using plasterboard does this mean I can plaster with the gypsum stuff?

I'm finding it really hard to make my mind up, it's worse than choosing what shoes to wear :roll:

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol:

 

[skier-hughes]

I don't think Gareth will mind if the thrmals and bath are missing from the picture
Milk, white or dark is a personal preference, maybe white if you have a maroon suite, dark if you have a white suite and milk if you have a chocolate suite............

If you use plasterboard, yes you can use gypsum plaster.

Shoes? What are they, I'm in wellies all day long

 

[FamilyWiggs]

and milk if you have a chocolate suite............

A chocolate bathroom suite - now that's just being silly Graham. :lol:

Do you have to insulate your bathroom? Ours is a fairly nippy affair, but the bath is very nice whilst you're in it. We just learn to dry/dress in another (warmer) room.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I'm finding it really hard to make my mind up, it's worse than choosing what shoes to wear :roll:

What's the dilemma?

a) If it is a weekday, then I "choose" the black work shoes.
b) If it is a weekend day, then I "choose" the capped work boots.
c) If I am going out, then I "choose" the brown causal shoes.
d) If it is more than 6 inches deep in snow outside, then I wear wellies until I get to where I am going in which case I then change in to a), b) or c)

I don't know why you girls over-complicate this question. It is all rather simple. :roll:

Sometimes I wonder whether I should get a less formal job (or just dress-down) - in which case a) could be replaced with c) to simplify the problem yet further.

 

[Jill]

Helen, have you decided what decor you will be having in your bathroom? (Normally us girlies have got it sorted in our minds right down to which door knobs we want when we haven't even got a roof on). If you have decided would it be worth thinking backwards, ie if you are fully tiling it what surface would be the best. We had a combination of stud, brick and stone walling in our newly created ensuite bathroom and opted for plasterboard plus gypsum plaster (or our builder did). Only problem we encountered was that the stone wall slopes backwards slightly and resulted in a rather thick bed of tile adhesive being laid to get the tiles to lay vertical.

If you're finding this difficult wait until you start choosing your towels - various shades of chocolate may go down well in mine.

 

[Penners]

To Gareth Hughes ....... I live a very deprived life

How interesting that your life and Gareth's are so similar.

Oh - sorry. You said deprIved...

 

[HelenS]

To -FW -You really haven't thought this through. In your list of footwear you have made no provision for warm weather, what about flip-flops, comfy slip-ons or even trainers, and where oh where are your slippers in all of this? :roll:

To - Jill - You really made me smile as indeed I have chosen the door knobs, amber glass to be exact. :lol: (I take it that all of your bathroom walls have plaster board on no matter what is underneath, or have I missunderstood?)

My conclusion from reading the replies and articles on this site is that it is ok to mix old and new materials, in the right place. So for my internal walls that will have tiles, and therefore not breathable, I can use aqua panel or moisture check board with celotex behind, then tile/gypsum plaster. On my 2 external walls I can use more natural insulation, a breather membrane and lime plaster, although if I do that will 2 walls in gypsum and 2 walls in lime plaster not look good?
As you can tell I have no knowledge or experience with period buildings and to have my first project being one of the most complex rooms in the house is quite daunting.

Thanks
PS nice to find people with a sense of humour

 

[Pford75]

We only just received our LBC, so I haven't got my Pavatherm boards yet....but they come highly recommended from our Conservation architect and were supported by our CO.

I think you'll find that since FW lives in Wales, there has been no omission in his footwear list. 'Warm' is a relative term and in 'warm' Welsh weather, I suppose the wellies will be fine.

 

[skier-hughes]

although if I do that will 2 walls in gypsum and 2 walls in lime plaster not look good?


Thanks
PS nice to find people with a sense of humour

Although the first picture has no gypsum plaster on show it does have 500 year old lime and 6 month old lime, and if you look through the links you'll see work in progress, and here is a pic of lime and gypsum side by side once painted....... can you tell which is which?

Our lime plasterers used a white gypsum, so even once done it was not that easy to tell which was which.

 

[HelenS]

Tee Hee

 

[HelenS]

Although the first picture has no gypsum plaster on show it does have 500 year old lime and 6 month old lime, and if you look through the links you'll see work in progress, and here is a pic of lime and gypsum side by side once painted....... can you tell which is which?

No I can't tell the difference at all. I'm glad you posted the pic as I'll show it to my plasterer. It looks really good.

 

[HelenS]

I read a reply where someone sent a picture of a lime plaster wall next to a gypsum plaster wall (Skier-hughes?), and I sent a response. However I can't find it now. What have I done, perhaps pressed delete?

 

[skier-hughes]

Although the first picture has no gypsum plaster on show it does have 500 year old lime and 6 month old lime, and if you look through the links you'll see work in progress, and here is a pic of lime and gypsum side by side once painted....... can you tell which is which?

No I can't tell the difference at all. I'm glad you posted the pic as I'll show it to my plasterer. It looks really good.

This one?

It's just above your last one.

Sometimes if you use the back button you can view the thread minus your last contribution, press refresh, F5 or don't go back!!!!!!!!