How to install reclaimed oak floor

[Zebra]

I have some inch thick tongue-and-groove oak flooring to lay. The floor is an insulated concrete one, but with no screed. I've decided if I can, to lay the floor over timbers directly onto the concrete, rather than screeding, mainly because then I can do it myself. Central heating pipes will go in the gap under the boards.
There seem to be two methods of fixing timber floors which I've come across. One is the suspended floor - boards over joists sitting in hangers or resting on dwarf walls. The other method is the floating floor, where boards are attached to timbers laid directly onto the concrete but not fixed to it.
I've never come across one where the boards are fixed to timbers laid onto the concrete and bolted down to it. Why would this be? It would seem to be a good solution in this situation. I know how thick the concrete is, so won't drill into the dpc. Do the timbers need to expand and contract, which would be prevented if they were bolted down?
Many thanks for help and tips!

 

[middi]

In your situation ( as you describe it) the best ( and cheapest) solution would be to fix appropriate pressure treated battens to the existing floor , 50 x 50mm is usually used, these to be secured to the concrete by normal frame fixing raw plug screws. Use a spirit level to ascertain if any packing is required under the battens a some points.
Alternatively, you may need to use bigger ( or smaller) battens/joist as required in order to achieve the desired floor level.
If the existing floor is insulated under the cement, just simply fix the treated timbers directly onto it. If not, it would be advisable to use a strip membrane on the floor before you screw down the joists. ( you may even want to consider insulation if possible).

The best way to lay the T & G oak boards is not to nail them to the battens/joists but to " secret screw " the boards at 45 deg through the - TONGUE- of the board with the screw head countersunk into it
Leave at least 10 mm gap at the perimeter to allow for expansion
Do not allow the room to get damp and unventilated otherwise all the oak boards will buckle due to expansion.

Good luck
Middi

 

[DJH]

Keep the boards in your stable as long as you can Zebra to let them acclimatise to the heat of the savannah...

Doug

 

[Zebra]

Thank you middi, that's more or less exactly what I was hoping to do, you've given me the confidence to know that I'm on the right path. Would you pilot the holes in the tongues for the secret screws, before screwing them in?
DJH, the boards are currently stored in my Mum's garage 6 miles away. It is unheated, well ventilated, with poorly fitting doors, bare walls, in other words just like my living room. So they'll be fairly acclimatised already. But I was hoping to bring a van-load over at a time, and lay them as I go, so how long do you think they'd need to hang about for, checking out the atmosphere?

 

[DJH]

A fortnight at least I've always understood. Piloting a hole is good but oval nails are traditional if fixing through the tongues. This allows a bit of movement in the wood. Screws hold the boards too tight in my opinion...and there's always the chance of over tightening screws and splitting the tongue even if the holes are countersunk.

Doug

 

[Zebra]

Tight is good, no? Loose boards means squeaky?
D'you know, it'll probably take me about two weeks to get around to laying the first batch anyway..... :roll:

 

[DJH]

If you don't want them to squeak then you should consider fixing them traditionally through the face with the nails angled inwards towards the centre of the boards and have the bearers no more than 16" apart if that...

I expect they have nail holes in them as they are reclaimed. Always try to get old boards where the nails have been pulled through from behind rather than hammered back through. This nearly always causes the face to splinter out leaving a right mess...

Doug

 

[Keith Bowman]

Tight is good, no? Loose boards means squeaky?
D'you know, it'll probably take me about two weeks to get around to laying the first batch anyway..... :roll:

Squeaky can be good - "canary floors" give you warning of the approach of a midnight assassin

 

[Keith Bowman]

Tight is good, no? Loose boards means squeaky?
D'you know, it'll probably take me about two weeks to get around to laying the first batch anyway..... :roll:

Squeaky can be good - "canary floors" give you warning of the approach of a midnight assassin

Bother - wrong bird: for canary read nightingale

 

[Zebra]

What, you mean in case a lion should come into the house in the night you mean? Oh dear, I do hope not.

 

[middi]

Of course "nailing" floor boards is the traditional way, the traditional way also means "wacking" two nails trough the top face of the board every time they intersect with the joist and deep enough to avoid any protrusion above the board face.
THe big disadvantage about " secret" nailing at 45deg is the ( more or less !!) destruction of floorboards in the unlikely event that these boards need to be removed for some reason or other. If the boards fixing points are countersunk, pilot drilled and correctly screwed it would be a dodle to removed them if required.
In my experience ( a lot of oak T & G floorboard floors screwed down !!) I have never had a problem, provided that the boards are acclimatised for a few days ( 15 days usually) within the building where they need to be used, the lateral expansion tolerance is observed when screwed down and the moisture content within the room is not allowed to accumulate without ventilation or heating ( or both ) being applied. Common sense really.
The main reason why secret nailing is practiced by "floor fitters" is the speed at which these nails can be "wacked" in. An average room floor can be laid in three or four hours with the aid of correct nail cartridge and " wacker". The same cannot be said if a hole need to be prepared in the board tongue ( ie- countersunk and pre-drilled ) before every screw can then be fixed. As they say " time is money) , this mostly apply if one has to pays someone else and saving money is the another object of the exercise.

Middi

 

[Keith Bowman]

What, you mean in case a lion should come into the house in the night you mean? Oh dear, I do hope not.

But not only do you need to be forewarned of the approach of a lion, Henry might be attacked by an intruder Dyson in his sleep - or abducted by an old perverted Hoover. You really need a squeaky floor

 

[LadyArowana]

What, you mean in case a lion should come into the house in the night you mean? Oh dear, I do hope not.

They were designed to be anti-ninja, but given that lions will be heavier than your average ninja they will be effective for that too. I would suggest though that once the lions ( or ninjas ) are in the house it's all a bit too late, better to install some very sturdy doors to keep them out. We found that totally effective during our time in Japan, never once bothered by anything bigger than an occasional insect, I don't count the neighbors cat as I used to open the door and let him visit on Fridays when she did her vacuuming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightingale_floor

 

[Zebra]

Secret screws and secret nails would be equally destructive in the event of having to remove a board, would they? Tongue and groove are very difficult to remove without damage anyway, however they're nailed, as I know from experience as an electrician!
I plan to have easily removable sections (cut the tongues off and screw them from the top) at each radiator, in order to access the pipework joins, and gentle curves in the plastic pipework in between so I could pull new ones through if necessary. In theory anyway! Therefore I hope that there would be no reason to have to lift the floor in future!
As far as the nightingale floor is concerned, I can definately see the benefits of being warned about the entry of lions, ninjas, perverted Hoovers and the like, but there must be a better way. Lady A, I think your doors suggestion is very sensible, and you've reminded me, I must get on and choose some external doors. But surely a floor covered with actual nightingales - no, they wouldn't stay down there, how about a variety of small mammals, rabbits, hamsters etc. They would squeak when you walk on them. Especially with hooves. And they'd be removable if you wanted in the future to reverse the nightingale floor effect.

 

[DJH]

Leave the tongue on. Cut off the bottom piece of the rebate instead then you won't have a gap... 8)

Doug

 

[Zebra]

Ah, yes. Of course. Perfect, thank you.

 

[middi]

Are You sure you want to fit an Oak floor ??.

( it would be better if you stock up on straw and hay if you expect all those animal to be moving in )

Middi

 

[LadyArowana]

But surely a floor covered with actual nightingales - no, they wouldn't stay down there, how about a variety of small mammals, rabbits, hamsters etc. They would squeak when you walk on them. Especially with hooves. And they'd be removable if you wanted in the future to reverse the nightingale floor effect.

They would only squeak once though, wouldn't they? So if the predator ( or ninja ) followed in your footsteps and only walked on the squashed hamsters you wouldn't hear them. Keeping the floor well covered in small mammals would get expensive, removing the "used" ones wouldn't be very pleasant and it would all be a bit cruel to the unfortunate little animals. However, I think there is a solution, using squeaky toys instead. They would automatically reset and squeak again the next time they were stepped on. Ones like this would give you a great sense of empowerment as you symbolically smite down your nemesis.

 

[Zebra]

LadyA, your advice is so well thought-out and apposite, do you mind if I recommend your services to other members of the hippotigris community?

 

[LadyArowana]

LadyA, your advice is so well thought-out and apposite, do you mind if I recommend your services to other members of the hippotigris community?

Always more than happy to help, and probably auspicious too since it will be time to celebrate everything horsey very soon. Lunar ( aka "Chinese" ) New Year falls at the end of January this year. Some of the cards even look a little zebraesque