How original is original floor?

[tumbledown]

The timber framed house I've bought has been estmated at between 450-500 years old. It was originally built, we think, as a guild hall rather than as a residential property. The timber-framer chap, who seemed quite knowledgeable in these matters, said it was a fairly high status building, and as such would have had some kind of floor, rather than just beaten earth as many other properties of this period. I've slowly been removing a concrete floor and have found evidence of a a brick floor (I don't know as yet how many of the bricks will survive in reasonable condition). My question is, would this have been the orignial floor? Were floor bricks around that long ago? If not, what sort of floor would originally have been laid in a Suffolk guildhall 400-500 years ago?

 

[biffvernon]

Were floor bricks around that long ago?

Oh yes.

This little pile of abaut a million bricks was assembled in about 1440

Tattershall Castle

 

[middi]

Interesting, I had the same puzzle on my building which was estimated to have been built somewere between 1400-1450 as inpected by a well respected heritage architect.

Whilst it was agreed that it was a reasonably important building of that era, all sorts of speculations were put forward by different people with reasonable knowledge of these buildings as to the purpose of its use.

As there is no Guild hall within a 15 miles radius it was suggested that it may have been a guild hall, another suggestion attributed it to a possible banqueting hall, these were dismissed by the architect due to its location and surrounds. The house was reasonably high status alright because it turned out to be that it was the remaining front and rear jettied cross wing of an even earlier built open hall house, with evidence of master and servants appropriate sized doorways leading to to the earlier hall. Also evidence of the thatched roof outline against the cross wing.

Floors.
After removing a layer of cement, evidence of brick floor below this on compacted lime soil mix, and the little remaining oak floor even further down there was evidence of an original well compacted soil floor and used as such. The rotted remains of the oak floor was not part of the original structure.

If your house was built as a guild hall, and according to learned scholars, It would have been almost a certainty that it would have had proper constructed floor of timber or possibly brick due to the very heavy traffic it had to endure. Depending on geographical aerea stone may have been used.

With carefull archeological approach and a keen eye you should be able to get to the bottom of it, and as much research as you can at the record office. It may involve a few evening classes to brush up on your Latin :wink:

 

[tumbledown]

Thanks for your thoughts. I've uncovered part of the floor in a single story annex. The bricks seem to be red and buff. The bricks I've uncovered in the main (older) house seem to be the same type. As the annes was built approx 200-250 years ago, I thoought maybe the whole floor was laid around the same time, and before this time some other flooring would have been laid in the main house. It appears that the builting was once used as a pub, and the annex built on as a kind of barrell store.

well, as you say - bit of careful digging needed!

 

[middi]

The bricks used in a guild hall of the period you describe would have been, most likely, approximately 2 inches thick, heavily fired and irregular.

From the 12th and 13th cent and up to the 1460's the use of bricks was quite sparce , it become popular when it was decreed that chimneys had to be built out of non combustible materials and the shortage of timber from this period on also added to their increased popularity. The powers that be( and true to form) quickly slapped taxes on them, the even quicker thinking brick makers just made the bricks bigger in order to alleviate the problem. - Nothing new on this front then-

You can decifre quite a lot by checking the type of brick you find, although not much if they have been reused.

 

[biffvernon]

it was decreed that chimneys had to be built out of non combustible materials

That was the first Building Regulation was it? Maybe they should have left it at that

 

[middi]

I not certain about this being the first building reg, but definetely the most sensible ever made.

I detect the devious motive which makes governments necessary evils and justify their existence.

Was this "building reg" to protect the welfare of the poor and the thick, or, was it tax collecting through the back door ?.

I suspect it was to do with stopping people being cremated by dodgy chimneys with the opportunity of more taxes being collected.

( wondering suspecious mind at work !!)

 

[NT]

The exact size of the bricks can help determine their age, as sizes changed over time.

NT

 

[Penners]

As there is no Guild hall within a 15 miles radius it was suggested that it may have been a guild hall

I'm interested in knowing a bit more about that, Middi. Was it really impossible for there to have been more than a 30-mile gap between guildhalls?

 

[middi]

I do not think that there was a predetermined distance as to how far these exchange of trades produce, " stock exchanges".general administration, "distribution depo,s" and social gatherings guild halls had to be apart. This was governed by the local market forces and general wealth of of a particular geographical aerea of a county.

In a reasonably wealthy county ,dealing with different trades and goods, there would have been a numerous number of guild halls spread in every small town or big villages. albeit of different status and some specializing in different trades. As 15 miles of that era was probably equivalent to 150 miles or more in travelling time by today standards one can understand their close proximity in some aereas.

The water or wind mills are a perfect example.

 

[Penners]

I hadn't thought of it in terms of travelling time, rather than distance. It's easy to forget how relatively small the area of day-to-day travel must have been to ordinary folk in those days.

 

[tumbledown]

The exact size of the bricks can help determine their age, as sizes changed over time.

NT

How exactly does the brick size dertermine age? Would 500 year old bricks generally be bigger or smaller than later ones?

 

[biffvernon]

There are plenty of exceptions but generally, older bricks were thinner.

 

[Penners]

Tumbledown

If you want to see examples of early bricks. flooring bricks and so on, go and pay a visit to Bulmer Brick & Tile at Bulmer, near Sudbury. They still make all kinds of historic bricks in the traditional way. It's ages since I've bought from them, so I can't remember his name, but the guv'nor is a super old boy. Tel 01787 269232.