How many original Georgian country houses?

[Manks]

We went to view a Georgian rectory on Thursday. It's in Lincs and it comes with eight acres of land or there abouts. It's in a decent village and the property is well presented.

What struck me about the property particularly was how original it is. All the fireplaces are original, as are all the doors, windows and joinery. At least if these things aren't original, they have been replaced sympathetically. There are some lovely doorcases - really detailed and beautiful.

The problem is that firstly the place is a tad too expensive for us and the competition seems to be keen. Secondly, the timing isn't good for us.

I get the feeling about the property that it's one we will one day regret passing up. However, my main reason for feeling that is to do with the shortcomings of the other properties we have seen over the past two years.

What I wonder is this: How many Georgian rectories or similar out there that are largely original? It is entirely possible that the properties I have seen have only been seen by me because the good stuff gets sold "off market". But then again, it may be that most have been messed about with badly.

What do people think?

Manks

 

[Penners]

How many Georgian rectories or similar out there that are largely original? It is entirely possible that the properties I have seen have only been seen by me because the good stuff gets sold "off market". But then again, it may be that most have been messed about with badly.

I doubt whether anyone will be able to answer that one, Manks.

All I can venture as an amateur guess is that selling "off-market" may become less widespread if - as most pundits seem to be suggesting - the housing market is cooling off.

 

[Flyfisher]

One depressing thought is that you're right about there being a dearth of completely original properties and that competition for them is fierce in this 'makeover' culture because of their 'potential' for being 'done up'.

Does 'off-market' selling just mean selling privately and not through estate agents or auctions? If so, might we not see an increase in this if the housing market really is cooling off? After all, if people are going to get £10-20k less for their property, what better way to preserve their own value by cutting out these professional services and using one of the many online advertising services?

 

[Manks]

Does 'off-market' selling just mean selling privately and not through estate agents or auctions?

Yes exactly. No HIP, no agents fees.

 

[biffvernon]

There's no requirement to use an agent, but HIPs are now a legal thingy. Being an outlaw is getting tricky, even in Lincolnshire, where we have plenty of old rectories.

 

[Nemesis]

I think not all sales need a HIP:

Are there any exclusions from the Home Information Pack regulations?

Home Information Packs will not be required on the following:-

Properties in Scotland and Northern Ireland
Private sales where the property is not offered on the open market (eg. to a family member, neighbour, or friend);
Non-residential property or where homes are in mixed use with commercial property;
Properties sold with sitting tenants and not available for owner occupation;
Portfolios of residential property;
'Right to Buy' sales by Local Authorities or other social landlords;
Homes held on a lease of less than 21 years;

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Selling 'off market' or by any means that cuts out the Estate Agent certainly saves fees, but it does not do much to ease the movement of the property market. It is slowing down and people are being very cautious.

 

[Flyfisher]

There's no requirement to use an agent, but HIPs are now a legal thingy. Being an outlaw is getting tricky, even in Lincolnshire, where we have plenty of old rectories.

That's an interesting point - can there be a law that affects a private transaction? HIPs are, presumably, for the buyers benefit/protection but are they forced to insist on it? Cars require an MOT certificate (when over 3 years old) to be road legal, but it's not illegal to buy/sell a car without a valid MOT cert.

Anyway, who would bring a prosecution for not having a HIP, and what would be the point if the two parties were quite happy without one?

 

[Manks]

No HIP is required when a sale is a private transaction, I.e. not via an agent.

In practice and agent will not be prepared to sell your house without one. But I have often wondered about testing the law on a "via agent sale". It's about the most stupid piece of legislation since I can remember.

Manks

 

[Penners]

Does 'off-market' selling just mean selling privately and not through estate agents or auctions? If so, might we not see an increase in this if the housing market really is cooling off? After all, if people are going to get £10-20k less for their property, what better way to preserve their own value by cutting out these professional services and using one of the many online advertising services?

There's a logic in your argument. But I feel that a sluggish market means that every sale is going to demand increased marketing effort and negotiating skill. In general I suspect vendors will feel that estate agents are more likely to be able to bring these to bear on the sale of their property than they can alone.

 

[Manks]

Penners

I agree, if the agent is a good one. However a bad one is worse than selling direct.

I am in the process of buying one property at present and the agent involved is useless. Basically weak and not prepared to tell his client what he needs to be told. It will cost his client money.

Manks

 

[Penners]

Fair enough, Manks. But that's true in all walks of life, isn't it?

If your dentist doesn't make a good job of looking after your teeth, you fire him and find one who does.

 

[Pford75]

If your dentist doesn't make a good job of looking after your teeth, you fire him and find one who does.

Except in the estate agent parallel, the incompetent agent demands a 12 week tie-in...preventing you from getting your filling seen to elsewhere competently. Then, when you do finally switch to a new dentist, the old one charges you for the fillings on the basis that he 'indentified the cavities'

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Not all Estate Agents insist on a 12 week tie -in, those that do can be discouraged from the onset by telling them that you will take your business elsewhere. Shopping round for the best Agent in the area is useful.... 3 valuations etc etc.

 

[biffvernon]

Last time I moved we sold without an agent - and did our own conveyancing.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Going back to your original question, our house still has its Georgian woodwork. Fireplaces are mainly Victorian though, as is the roof. It was uninhabitable when we bought it, so most of the plaster is modern lime, and the central heating dates to 2007. Maybe Lincolnshire has more than its fair share of unmodernised properties because the housing market was slower here, with fewer developers. Even so, with central heating and electricity it would be hard to claim that it is still in its original state. The evidence suggests that if you want to find a property with lots of original features, the 'At Risk' register is a good place to start.

 

[Flyfisher]

Not all Estate Agents insist on a 12 week tie -in, those that do can be discouraged from the onset by telling them that you will take your business elsewhere. Shopping round for the best Agent in the area is useful.... 3 valuations etc etc.

Good points. Also, when reviewing the agent's terms and conditions prior to signing, there is nothing to stop you from changing any of the clauses, deleting ones that you don't like or adding your own new ones. Just cross out stuff you don't like and write in the stuff you do want before signing.

The T&Cs are only the agent's contract proposal. By changing them before signing you are effectively making your own contract terms. Of course, the agent is not obliged to accept the altered terms but that's all part of the negotiation.

 

[Pford75]

Might be feasible with the smaller agents...but with the top end of the market, it's a bit of a closed shop...with very little room for negotiation on the standard terms (they all have a vested interest in maintaining these). I'm referring to the Strutt & Parker, FPD Savills, Jackson Stops & Staff etc.

Many of them also charge an up front fee for the glossy brochure (which typically only applies for GBP1m+). However, once you've paid out a couple of grand for the brochure, it's not that attractive to change agents.

 

[Penners]

Many of them also charge an up front fee for the glossy brochure (which typically only applies for GBP1m+). However, once you've paid out a couple of grand for the brochure, it's not that attractive to change agents.

Interesting copyright question, though. If you've paid for the production of the brochure, shouldn't you be entitled to use it regardless of which agent you've subsequently appointed?

OK, I know the original agent's details will be plastered all over it, but isn't that what felt-tip pens are for?! :wink:

 

[Pford75]

Good question....I believe the charge is usually for 'photographers fees' and 'typesetting' with the agent claiming to meet the print costs themselves. Although, must admit it would be tempting to ask.

With the reach of the internet these days though, I believe less in good/bad estate agents and more in realistic/unrealistic prices which vendors expect.