How far back must I go

[davidflags]

Having had the CO to visit a house I am in process of buying I am told that not only the windows that were mentioned on the original listing document must be restored to as was condition but also all the other windows must also be put back to match them. Is this correct?
When first listed in 1986 the other 15 of so windows were a complete hotch potch of aluminium and PVC double glazed units. Some 15 years ago the were all replaced with timber double glazed units designed to look from a distance like sash windows.
I would welcome any advise thank you.

 

[Jon Maine]

I suspect that he can, the building is listed as a whole even if particular items are not mentioned.

However armed with this information will the vendor not amend their price accordingly? It is a buyers market.

Surely the building would look right with the correct windows rather than an inferior copy even if it is similar.

Could be worth checking with the CO if that is all he intends to ask to be changed and will draw a line under it at that.

 

[davidflags]

Thank you for your reply, makes perfect sence to me, doubt I shall be very popular with the vendor though.....hey ho!

 

[Penners]

I hope that one of our resident CO's will reply. My own understanding is that the CO can insist that any and all changes that have been made to the building without LBC are put back to the condition they were in at the time of listing.

As Jon says, if you haven't exchanged contracts yet, you should insist that the cost of doing this is carried by the vendors (who are presumably responsible for the changes made without consent?) and is therefore reflected in the sale price of the house.

No, I'm sure this won't make you popular with the vendors. But which would you rather be - popular or poor? :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

When first listed in 1986 the other 15 of so windows were a complete hotch potch of aluminium and PVC double glazed units. Some 15 years ago the were all replaced with timber double glazed units designed to look from a distance like sash windows.

I don't wish to condone non-LBC works but surely the CO is not going to insist on the timber DG windows being replaced with aluminium and PVC ones, even though s/he has every right to do so?

 

[Penners]

One would imagine not, but my (very possibly flawed) understanding of the CO's rights is that this is all he/she is entitled to insist on.

Let's hope that one of our CO's spots this thread, and can give us an authoritative view.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, my understanding too.

A CO's view of unauthorised but genuinely appropriate works would be interesting. Support for retrospective LBC perhaps?

 

[davidflags]

I am grateful for all your comments, thank you.
On balance looks like I may not be the the most popular boy in the village.
I too would be very grateful for an authoratitive answer, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to escape my responsibilities.
I would just like to know what must be done, it seems a little daft to me to scrap perfectly good windows and repalce with somthing less efficiant and less secure..........horticultural grade glass..
(Wish there was a spell checker on this)

 

[Penners]

David - before you do anything further, I do suggest that you wait to see whether one of our CO members gives his view.

This may not happen over the weekend - perhaps Monday.

 

[Moo]

Are you implying that our tame COs regard PPUK as work. Penners?

 

[Penners]

Well, put it this way: they don't seem to be much in evidence at the weekend.

They probably push off somewhere to relax and have fun. Selfish blighters. :evil:

 

[Flyfisher]

I would just like to know what must be done, it seems a little daft to me to scrap perfectly good windows and repalce with somthing less efficiant and less secure..........horticultural grade glass..

David, you said in your original post that 15 of the windows, at the time of listing, were DG aluminium and PVC. My understanding is that your CO cannot insist on those 15 current wooden DG windows being replaced with anything other than DG aluminium and PVC, perverse though such a decision would be. Although those windows would not have been original to the property, the CO's powers only extend back to the point at which the property was listed.

I have a similar situation with one window in our GII* house; a huge (approx 4x7 foot) single-pane DG window that was installed before listing (and before my ownership I hasten to add!). Completely unsympathetic, of course, although a common fashion, I believe, in the 1970s. I have discussed the possible replacement of this window to match the others and our CO is totally supportive, but the decision on this is mine; the CO cannot insist the window is changed to something more sympathetic because it was present at the time of listing.

I appreciate the situation you describe is slightly different, but I still don't believe your CO can insist on those 15 windows being replaced with anything other than the ones in place at the time of listing and given that those windows sound even worse than the current ones they may create room for a compromise.

As for upsetting the vendors, remember that although, as a prospective purchaser, you will be taking on the liability of correcting any unauthorised changes to the listed property, it is the vendors who currently have that liability, so it's only reasonable that they make due consideration for you (or anyone else) relieving them of that liability. Furthermore, if they are the ones who actually made the unauthorised changes then they also have a criminal liability for those unauthorised works. So, although I can understand the vendors being upset, you're definitely not the villain of the whole affair - more like a white knight I'd say!

 

[Jon Maine]

I would just like to know what must be done, it seems a little daft to me to scrap perfectly good windows and repalce with somthing less efficiant and less secure..........horticultural grade glass..

David, you said in your original post that 15 of the windows, at the time of listing, were DG aluminium and PVC. My understanding is that your CO cannot insist on those 15 current wooden DG windows being replaced with anything other than DG aluminium and PVC, perverse though such a decision would be. Although those windows would not have been original to the property, the CO's powers only extend back to the point at which the property was listed.

I do not believe that is the case. If they were present at the time of listing he could only encourage you to change them but nevertheless if they have been changed subsequently they must be put back to a style he accepts that is suitable for the building.

Hopefully one of the professionals will give there opinion soon.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

This seems to be a bit of a confusing case. The CO can't insist on anything but a return to the state at the time of listing (unless he's requiring an application for LBC to undo the unauthorised works, which would be an odd, probably unenforceable, but not unheard-of course of action).

 

[Flyfisher]

So, in this case, what's the best course of action for the prospective buyer?

1. Buy anyway (after negotiating a price reduction) and live with the threat of corrective action enforcement, even though this seems unlikely if the only possible enforcement is to replace the existing windows (well, 15 of them) with aluminium and PVC?

2. Apply for retrospective LBC for the existing windows, so everything is legal and above board?

3. Move on and look for another property?

4. Something else?

 

[Jon Maine]

Was it a CO that came or one of his assistants?

Perhaps if it was an assistant a diplomatic telephone call to the senior CO may prove to be useful. Sadly I have however encountered a philosophy before that if an officer has made a call, even if it is not the best other officers appear to be under pressure from there authority to stick to the decision as otherwise it could get tricky with contradictions occuring. However I have managed to get around an issue like this and get it changed before, but not without a fair bit of negotiation.

 

[davidflags]

Again I am truly grateful for all your responses, It is a little strange to some one from outside this world of listed buildings to get a proper grip of the notion that other people have such a powerfull say in what you can and can't do with your home.
Though I do undersand there has to be some control or there would be nothing left to protect. Now how about a hot tub in the front garden and a quad bike track round the garden............? only joking

 

[Jon Maine]

You forgot your blue astro turf lawn :lol:

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I don't think any of those would need consent...

Madness