How do you install ceiling beams?

[mrssmith]

Hi, could anyone help me with how to put ceiling beams back into a property? We recently bought our cottage which dates back to the late 17th Century. It was refurbished in the 1970's with the 'style' of the time!

The living room ceiling is very lumpy plaster with an unplastered patch around the ceiling light. This shows strips of wood with I'm not sure what filling the gaps. The dining room just has plasterboard which is coming away from it's position. Is it likely that we would uncover beams beneath all of this or would they have been removed?

How do you go about installing beams if there are none there? We also have a 1960's extension and hope to tie this in with the older part of the property in time.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Many thanks

Charlotte

 

[Mark]

Well, if you didnt have beams you wouldnt have a ceiling. They are there to hold up the floor of the room above.

The lumpy plaster with strips of wood is probably a lath and plaster ceiling - which is probably what you should have.
It does depend on the style and grandeur of the property. You may originally have had just exposed beams, but the lath and plaster is prob rather old.

Plaster board might be fastened to another old lath and plaster ceiling - often done as a cheap fix rather than doing a proper repair - or might be on

You might knock the style of the 70's but putting pastiche beams into a property is also considered rather naff in many quarters.

 

[Moo]

The living room ceiling is very lumpy plaster with an unplastered patch around the ceiling light. This shows strips of wood with I'm not sure what filling the gaps.

It's almost certainly lath and plaster and, as such, to be cherished. If it's loose (a very gentle prod with a broom will tell all), it's possible to fix it back in place. There have been some interesting threads on this subject quite recently.

Lucky old you!

 

[Geoffrey]

Charlotte,

Some pics might make it easier, but it sounds like the wood strips you can see are probably the old laths and the stuff filling the gaps is what's left of the plaster, some of which has been removed to put the light there. Old ceilings can look "lumpy" if you mean not flat. This can be due just to movement over the years either in the walls or just in the laths and joists and may not mean anything untoward - i have several 16/17th century ceilings just like this and they are quite characterful. You will need to patch with lime plaster if this is the case. However sometimes, as a result of age and wear, the nibs of plaster which hold the ceiling to the laths can become damaged. The ceiling gradually separates from from the laths in these areas, and sags as a result causing the lumps. If you (very gently) push upwards and there is a lot of movement this may well be the cause. It is possible to repair and you will find several threads on this site which give details about this (I have never had to do it).
As beams are generally structural rather than decorative it is unlikely they would have been removed. Occasionally a badly rotten one may have been replaced with an RSJ rather than a beam. You won't know withouth taking the plasterboard down. You may (if you're lucky) find another original but lumpy ceiling left above the 70's one and the beams still there. On the other hand if you find joists then this ceiling is probably a replacement. Joists would often not have been visible, although there has been something of a fad (see other threads here) for exposing them and refering to them as beams.
In a previous house of mine I removed several areas of plasterboard which had been used to box in beams as a previous owner "didn't like beams" (god knows how they got listed building consent for this, or why they wanted to live in an old cottage for that matter). Anyhow one section was removed to reveal not a beam but an RSJ which I then disguised by having a new beam made - but hollowed out to accomodate the RSJ.
In the end you'd never have known.

End of essay - hope some of this is a help.

Geoff

 

[Nemesis]

An interesting digression - when is a beam a joist I wonder?

We have joists/beams - late 18thc - some (kitchen for example) were clearly meant to be exposed, as the edges are chamfred amongst other things, others are much the same but without the chamfer and with lath and plaster covering originally.

Very little difference beween the two!

 

[Matt Green]

An interesting digression - when is a beam a joist I wonder?

Gwilts Encyclopaedia of Architecture, 1891:

Joist. (Fr. Joindre.) The timber whereto the boards of a floor or the laths for a ceiling are nailed. Joists rest on the walls or on girders, sometimes on both.

Beam. (Sax. Beam, a tie.) A piece of timber, or sometimes of metal, for supporting a weight or counteracting two opposite or equal forces either drawing or compressing it in the direction of its length. The word is usually employed with some other word used adjectively or in opposition which word implies the use, or form of the beam; as tie beam, hammer beam, straining beam, lintel beam, summer beam, truss beam, girding beam, binding beam &c.

Girder. (Sax. Lyndan, to enclose.) The principal beam in a floor, for suporting the binding or other joists, whereby the bearing or length is lessened.


A girding beam then, in this case.


Matt Green

 

[Nemesis]

You know, there are times when you knew you shouldn't have pressed that 'submit' button!!!

 

[NT]

Lol

 

[Penners]

Matt - here's a brief lesson in understanding vague terminology:-

"I should like to have clear, precise and full information on this subject" means "please give me extensive and un-necessarily lengthy dictionary definitions".

"I wonder" means..."I wonder, but for God's sake don't bother me with detail".

Just for future reference...! :wink:

 

[Moo]

Oh, come off it, Penners - I thought the definition was really interesting.
But then, what with the allotment and all that, I know I should get out more.

 

[Penners]

I thought the allotment counted as "out"!

 

[Moo]

Well, it could do, but surely 'getting out' implies mixing with lots of dynamic, vibrant people. Twitch-grass roots don't have much in the way of conversation.

 

[Penners]

At my age I'm not sure I could cope with "dynamic and vibrant". I'm more of a "cosy and comfortable" sort of chap.

 

[Moo]

Aaah!

 

[Nemesis]

I am interested in Gwilts Encyclopaedia ... must buy. Very useful.

 

[Gervase]

Joyce wrote Ulysses and Goethe wrote Faust, as any fule no.

 

[Nemesis]

Oh dear - what with Hughes and his Chopin (as in orf with is royal 'ead) and now you... something in the air obviously.

However - if we are talkng litrachure...


http://www.alice.dryden.co.uk/ho_for_hoggwarts.htm


Chiz chiz.

 

[Geoffrey]

So sorry - and I thought it was just a question of size really!

 

[Nemesis]

Nothing is ever simple...

Related phrases: i-beam electron beam post-and-beam beam splitter spot beam collar beam external beam radiation floor beam h-beam grade beam


Definitions of beam on the Web:

radio beam: a signal transmitted along a narrow path; guides pilots in darkness or bad weather
smile radiantly; express joy through one's facial expression
long thick piece of wood or metal or concrete, etc., used in construction
shine: emit light; be bright, as of the sun or a light; "The sun shone bright that day"; "The fire beamed on their faces"
a column of light (as from a beacon)
express with a beaming face or smile; "he beamed his approval"
air: broadcast over the airwaves, as in radio or television; "We cannot air this X-rated song"
a group of nearly parallel lines of electromagnetic radiation
(nautical) breadth amidships
glow: have a complexion with a strong bright color, such as red or pink; "Her face glowed when she came out of the sauna"
glow: experience a feeling of well-being or happiness, as from good health or an intense emotion; "She was beaming with joy"; "Her face radiated with happiness"
balance beam: a gymnastic apparatus used by women gymnasts
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

BEAM robotics (acronym for Biology, Electronics, Aesthetics, and Mechanics) is a type of robotics that uses simple analog circuits instead of a microprocessor.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEAM

A beam is a structural element that carries load primarily in bending (flexure). Beams generally carry vertical gravitational forces but can also be used to carry horizontal loads (i.e. loads due to a gust of wind or an earthquake). The loads carried by a beam are transferred to columns, walls or girders, which in turn transfer the force to adjacent structural members.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_(structure)

The width of a ship.
http://www.iol.ie/~spice/nautglos.htm

The horizontal stone or timber placed across an architectural space to take the weight of the roof or wall above; also called a lintel.
http://www.ackland.org/tours/classes/glossary.html

the widest part of the boat
cbs.sportsline.com/sailing/americascup/glossary

A satellite transmission pattern. It may be wide, narrow or spot. This affects the satellites footprint.
http://www.satisfied-mind.com/directv/glossary.htm

The greatest width of the boat.
http://www.boatersdream.com/libarticles.cfm

Width of a canoe when measured at its widest point.
http://www.paddling.net/guidelines/showArticle.html

A bundle of light rays that may be parallel, converging or diverging.
http://www.marktechopto.com/engineering/glossary.cfm

A main horizontal member in a building's frame.
http://www.bensonwood.com/structure/glossary.html

A supporting member either of wood or steel.
http://www.sherlockhomeinspectors.com/glossary.html

A member, usually horizontal, that is subjected to bending loads. Three types of beams are simple, continuous, and cantilever.
http://www.steelbuildinghelp.com/steel_buildings_glossary_b.htm

The extreme breadth of a ship.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/7858/glossary.html

1.The extreme breadth (widest point) of a vessel 2.One of the transverse members of a ship's frames on which the decks are laid. They are supported on the ship's sides by right angle timbers called knees.
http://www.ageofsail.net/aostermi.asp

The particle stream produced by an accelerator usually clustered in bunches.
pdg.web.cern.ch/pdg/cpep/glossary.html

Long pieces of squared-off metal, normally steel, which are used in building construction.
http://www.stainless-steel-world.net/glossary/a_index.asp

a ray of light; a group of particles traveling together along a well-defined path
education.jlab.org/beamsactivity/6thgrade/vocabulary/

The width of the hull, often taken to mean the maximum width.
coastweather.com/html/sanda2.html

A horizontal framing member designed to carry a load from a set of joists or a roof and spanning an open space. Usually 6" x 6" or 4" x 10" or larger.
http://www.houstonremodeling.com/glossary/glossary_b.htm

a horizontal structural member that supports a load such as a roof.
http://www.homesite.com.au/renovate/tips_and_guides/glossary_of_building_terms/

A structural member transversely supporting a load.
http://www.realestatemanitoba.com/glossary.htm

A bar or straight girder used to support a span of roof between two support props or walls.
http://www.netl.doe.gov/coal/Coal%20Primer/glossary.html

the width of the boat at its widest
http://www.oceans18home.citymax.com/page/page/1305311.htm

A horizontal structure member supporting vertical loads by resisting bending. A girder is a larger beam, especially when made of multiple plates. Deeper, longer members are created by using trusses.
pghbridges.com/termsBrg.htm

The directed radio waves emanating from a transponder. Typically refers to aggregates of these rays, such as a "Latin American" coverage beam.
http://www.bafsat.com/p4.html

heavy main support element made of concrete, steel, or wood and running horizontally between columns or load bearing walls. It may be supported at one, two or more points, but not throughout its length.
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/BuildingPathology/ConstrEFRglossB.html

the width of a ship at its widest part
http://www.evgschool.org/Columbus%20vocabulary.htm

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[worms]

In the unlikely event that the original poster has persevered this far...

Is it too simplistic to suggest looking for the beams from above? Either by lifting a floorboard upstairs or from the loft space if it is a single storey building. Easier and less risky than disturbing the ceiling surely? Or am I missing something here?