I’m buying a grade II listed c17 cottage which has had an interesting life - historically it’s been a dairy and has had various bits added on to it over the years. The main building is rendered sandstone but there are extensions in brick which the listing states as 18th/19th century but my surveyor states as 20th century (cavity wall construction being the giveaway). The property was listed in the early 1980s and the listing is very sparse - basically a couple of paragraphs describing the front of the house. My question concerns roof-lights - the building contains some “velux”-type windows - which very definitely don’t look new - but the listing doesn’t mention them at all. I can completely believe they pre-date the listing but can’t see any way of proving one way or another whether they pre or post-date the listing. Do I need to worry that I will be on the hook to remove these as they’re not “period”? - I’m concerned because they really let light into the building and removing them would change the character of the inside considerably.
- Thread starter Oddjones
- Start date
LadyArowana
Member
- Messages
- 3,687
If they post date listing, and it was done with permission, then there should be a record with your local council. I can go back into history on ours through an online portal, but not all councils are the same. That would be my first port of call. I personally wouldn’t be *that* worried about having to remove them. Firstly because how are they going to know they are there ( if neighbours haven’t dobbed it in for enforcement by now they aren’t going to ) and secondly because you could always apply for retrospective permission ( and if they are old and unobtrusive and whatever then you could hope to receive it ). Others who have faced similar situations may have a better read on your predicament, there wasn’t anything untoward on ours, a bunch of stuff ( not good stuff ) was done on our GII in the 80’s and we unraveled a bit of it, with LBC, but kept other as it suited or was too difficult to change.
LadyArowana
Member
- Messages
- 3,687
The person who replied may not be a specialist and just looking to give you an answer which is quick, easy and designed to make you go away. It will be worthwhile having your own deep dive to see if there is anything else, either online or via other sorts of record if you are worried about it, which I confess I wouldn’t be. I’ve had a very good snuffle about with ours, but not because of concerns, just because I’m a bit nerdy about the house.
Mrs McG
Member
- Messages
- 86
- Location
- Bedfordshire
Don’t forget the conveyancing process for buying this property will include your solicitor asking if any work has been done and did it have LBC. The same process will have happened when the current owners purchased it etc. so there is a chain of checks behind you.
Has any structural work been done on it previously? I used my council’s planning portal to find the original plans for my cottage’s rear extension and this showed what changes were being made to the original fabric. If work has been done then maybe the velux windows would show on the plans.
Has any structural work been done on it previously? I used my council’s planning portal to find the original plans for my cottage’s rear extension and this showed what changes were being made to the original fabric. If work has been done then maybe the velux windows would show on the plans.
The answer regarding listing is simple - everything. Inside, outside and anything within the curtilage of your property.
If you’re unsure about taking on a listed building and what that entails, then Heritage England have some really good documents outlining many of the aspects often queried. Not always easy to find though…!
Listing descriptions are not intended to identify everything, with the exception of some of the GI stuff - they are primarily to identify the correct building. The drive by listings were not much more than that, a view from the road. Nobody would be able to see the sides/rear/roof… and access wouldn’t have been available to inspect the interior.
A couple of paragraphs is positively verbose!
There is a pragmatic view of retrospective changes and enforcements though. If the exact date of change cannot be identified, in relation to the listing date, then it’s very difficult to be black and white. sometimes detective work can show things were done after the listing without LBC which is great when you need an argument to change something that shouldn’t be allowed. However, conservation officers, if there even is one in your LA, do not have the time to be proactive. you’d have to have some vindictive neighbours to dob you in and report a suspected breach for the officer to then come out and inspect.
If you’re unsure about taking on a listed building and what that entails, then Heritage England have some really good documents outlining many of the aspects often queried. Not always easy to find though…!
Listing descriptions are not intended to identify everything, with the exception of some of the GI stuff - they are primarily to identify the correct building. The drive by listings were not much more than that, a view from the road. Nobody would be able to see the sides/rear/roof… and access wouldn’t have been available to inspect the interior.
A couple of paragraphs is positively verbose!
There is a pragmatic view of retrospective changes and enforcements though. If the exact date of change cannot be identified, in relation to the listing date, then it’s very difficult to be black and white. sometimes detective work can show things were done after the listing without LBC which is great when you need an argument to change something that shouldn’t be allowed. However, conservation officers, if there even is one in your LA, do not have the time to be proactive. you’d have to have some vindictive neighbours to dob you in and report a suspected breach for the officer to then come out and inspect.
Athers1971
Member
- Messages
- 94
Ours was listed in 1968 and has four velux windows.
Two were 'consented', as part of the conversion of the stable (though I've no clear approval of the finer details). The other two were in the main house and one was added in the late 1980s and the other around the time of the stable conversion, neither consented. No documentation but window codes and some old photos helped to date them roughly.
CO visited the property prior to us buying it and confirmed he had advised the enforcement team.
Given the age of them we are proposing to change them for larger, conservation rooflight type windows (CO has said he would be happy for this type of flush window to replace the veluxe ones which stand very proud of the roofline). I'd expect we'd have to seek retrospective approval if weren't doing that, but unsure whether it would be forthcoming.
If you are applying for planning or Listed Building Consent for any other works then there is a chance they may visit and spot them. I'd just keep quiet up until that point.
Two were 'consented', as part of the conversion of the stable (though I've no clear approval of the finer details). The other two were in the main house and one was added in the late 1980s and the other around the time of the stable conversion, neither consented. No documentation but window codes and some old photos helped to date them roughly.
CO visited the property prior to us buying it and confirmed he had advised the enforcement team.
Given the age of them we are proposing to change them for larger, conservation rooflight type windows (CO has said he would be happy for this type of flush window to replace the veluxe ones which stand very proud of the roofline). I'd expect we'd have to seek retrospective approval if weren't doing that, but unsure whether it would be forthcoming.
If you are applying for planning or Listed Building Consent for any other works then there is a chance they may visit and spot them. I'd just keep quiet up until that point.