Historic timbers

[El Greyo]

Just thought I'd share a photo of some of the timbers under out thatched roof. I think they are amazing, although also quite scary, and I wonder how old they are. Some are blackened by smoke. When we bought the cottage, the surveyor speculated that they might predate the chimney to when smoke from the fire would just be left to filter out through the thatch. I have no idea but the cottage has certainly been through a few stages of development.

Are rafters like these still common in old thatched houses?

 

[middi]

Roof 17th 18th C , . Ceiling and chimney probably later additions . The giveaway is the substantial blackened rafter purlin.

" henry " ( the hoover ) 21st C.

More pictures would be nice.

Middi

 

[El Greyo]

That make sense. We were told when we bought it that the house is C17 but a couple of others (surveyor and builder) have said that the style may be earlier. I'm sure the purlins are original as are the remaining timbers of the timber frame.

What I find fascinating are the branches that have been employed as rafters. The cottage has had a lot of development over the years (chimney, brick infill, stone wall added at the end, thatch on the rear roof replaced by tiles and so on) but there are still some rafters that are clearly very old and perhaps original. It would be great to know a bit more about the history of the house.

Would post some more photos but unlikely to have the time to go into the roof to take them for a few days.

 

[MdB]

" henry " ( the hoover ) 21st C.

More pictures would be nice.

Middi

 

[middi]

Ha,ha,ha, ( you have missed out henrietta--his wife)

Middi

 

[Juju]

Our house is late 17th century and the horizontal panelling in the hallway has upright branches like your picture for structure - we can see them from underneath in the cellar. Certainly more interesting than the regular upright wotsits (can't think of the technical term) you see in stud walls.
Juju

 

[Penners]

Certainly more interesting than the regular upright wotsits (can't think of the technical term) you see in stud walls.

Er... studs?

 

[Penners]

That's fascinating, El Greyo. As you and Middi have both observed, the smoke-blackening almost certainly occurred when the building was warmed by an open fire with no chimney. It's possible that there were little gablet louvres to let the smoke out, although the rafter structure seems to show no sign of these now.

The roughness of the unsawn rafters perhaps indicates a lowly building, but of course a thatched roof doesn't need the rafters to be perfectly aligned, so such sophistication could have been regarded as an un-necessary expense.

Your lath-and-plaster ceiling looks in excellent order!

 

[biffvernon]

Yes, thatched roofs often have what look like very cheap rafters. I've seen some that aren't much better than bean poles but they still do the job.

 

[El Greyo]

The roughness of the unsawn rafters perhaps indicates a lowly building, but of course a thatched roof doesn't need the rafters to be perfectly aligned, so such sophistication could have been regarded as an un-necessary expense.

It is quite a lowly building (we know out place, m'lud) as it was an estate cottage before we bought it and presumably always had been. I love the fact that someone in need of rafters just chopped a few branches off some local trees (elm probably?) and 3 or 4 hundred years later, they're still doing their job.

Your lath-and-plaster ceiling looks in excellent order!

For the most part, yes. And if it stays up then I'm not touching it. But don't look too closely at some of those nibs.

 

[Penners]

if it stays up then I'm not touching it.

Quite right.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[ChrisD]

I was just reading a SPAB article bemoaning the loss of smoke-blackened thatch- apparently only 200 examples survive in England. They point to the web-site: historicthatch.org which may be a work-in-progress but there could be some useful bits of information in there. I also read that many thatched properties use 'ash pole rafters' as they are supposed to resist decay - it seems that you can confirm this! I have seen pictures of ash poles still being used for repairs - maybe something to bear in mind in the future?

 

[robgil]

I think Henry's wife walked out on him because of his massive drug habit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SFDQWZpKeA&feature=related

 

[Penners]

I was just reading a SPAB article bemoaning the loss of smoke-blackened thatch

I should have thought there was no shortage of smoke-blackened thatch...

 

[philpjuk100]

I try not to think too hard about my roof timbers,on the survey it was said there was no sign of active beetle or worm and that it seemed structurally sound but it still frightens me! some of the beams are blackened but it looks as if folks have lived up there(there is a fireplace and doors!)As at one time the house was three separate dwellings so the roof is covered with different tiles.When I can afford it and if I can get lbc I would retile in uniform pantiles and while the tiles are off check and repair the woodwork.It saw strong winds and quite a lot of snow last year so maybe the surveyor is correct! phil.

 

[El Greyo]

I was just reading a SPAB article bemoaning the loss of smoke-blackened thatch- apparently only 200 examples survive in England. They point to the web-site: historicthatch.org which may be a work-in-progress but there could be some useful bits of information in there. I also read that many thatched properties use 'ash pole rafters' as they are supposed to resist decay - it seems that you can confirm this! I have seen pictures of ash poles still being used for repairs - maybe something to bear in mind in the future?

Thanks Chris, that's interesting. I don't think we have any smoke-blackened thatch, but the timbers are. Now you mention it, the rafters do look like ash.

 

[El Greyo]

I try not to think too hard about my roof timbers...

Me too. When we first went up into the roof in the process of buying the cottage, we were quite scared by it - a random assortment of rafters of all sorts of age, style and condition. But the surveyor wasn't worried and said just as expected in a property such as this. Now we're used to them, I just find them fascinating. I'll keep an eye on them though.

 

[Flyfisher]

I've never really thought about it before but could it be that a thatched roof would be self-supporting to some degree? And, if so, might that explain the relative thinness of some of those roof timbers?

 

[El Greyo]

Just been up in the roof so I have a few more photos for you of the rafters. Just for context, the first is a photo of the cottage. Our part is up to, but not including, the bay window.

 

[robgil]

No blackened thatch here , not burnt rafters either but i do know the roof may well have been replaced sometime around 1760 ish when the owner or occupant was ordered to repair his home according to village records. I have a feeling the house had burned or partly burned down due to there only being one family living here and half the house it would seem being made from elm as opposed to the other being constructed of oak.
When we bought it there wasn't even a hatch to get up there top have a look, i think we got off lightly. :shock: