Heritage (and other) Range Cookers conundrum

[Minkeycat]

We want to put in a range cooker for central heating and cooking. After a huge amount of deliberating our choice is down to two brands, Esse and Heritage having ruled out Aga, Rayburn and Stanley for various reasons.

We were convinced that Heritage was the best option for us. We'd only heard excellent things about them and really like them as a company. Yesterday, however, a heating engineer came to the house and told us that we'd regret the choice. He couldn't really explain why and just had generic, anecdotal evidence about them such as "We take them out for people who say they'd never buy another one" or just "Running costs". We suspect he might be biased in his opinions because he gets a lot of work from a range cooker shop locally that doesn't sell Heritage but it's shaken our confidence in them a bit.

Has anyone got any thoughts regarding Heritage/Esse about running costs and servicing that would suggest one is any better than the other? If you have a Heritage, can you give any idea about running costs and general experience of ownership?

 

[JoceAndChris]

I'm afraid I can't really help, but out of interest why did you rule out a Rayburn? I have a Rayburn that was installed in 1982 and it works beautifully. It does heating, hot water and has an oven always hot for slow cooking. In summer with the heating not being on the hot plates get hot enough to boil things with it just on low. It's a great machine and I'm sure will outlive me. I don't think you can beat the Aga/Rayburn brand!

 

[Minkeycat]

Unfortunately it was a few things that caused us to rule them out. We automatically went to the Aga/Rayburn showroom not really thinking there were other viable brands. We started our research in January last year and since then there have been more and more price rises at Aga/Rayburn. According to the heating engineer we spoke to the other day, they're now over 20% more expensive and the justification seems to be down to the new US corporate ownership rather than anything else. The idea that Aga/Rayburn are now American owned also doesn't sit well with us. We went to a Rayburn demo not long ago and it was very good but, we were told it had to be installed and serviced by Rayburn for the duration of its life. Apparently they've reduced their servicing team now to such an extent that they can't cope with demand so if it goes wrong, you could be without cooking/heating for a while. It wasn't as well made as other brands (plasticy looking handles etc!) and the technology in them hadn't really come on as much as others. Additionally, the salesman told us we'd need a new chimney flue at £2,000+ and a new oil tank at £2,000+ and a new water tank at £1000+ and a load more cost but I'd stopped listening at that point (none of these extras are needed). What's more, we should sign that day because, guess what, the price is going up soon! I know that's more to do with the sales people but it's not the experience we wanted. I appreciate I could have been misinformed about them but we're in Devon and find Heritage to be a lovely company to deal with and they're building their range cookers down in Cornwall which appeals to us. It's a toss up between them and Esse really. Both British owned and built and without the niggles at Aga. It's such a shame. I grew up in a house with a Rayburn and loved it but, well, they just don't seem to be the same these days.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for the reply Minkeycat, that's interesting! I've got a couple of friends with an Esse, one likes it, one is less keen! Heritage I don't know at all. Sounds great though.

Disappointing about the Aga brand, and I hate that constant selling up that happens! :evil: I can certainly confirm it isn't easy getting the 1980s Rayburn serviced by anyone other than the chap who's been servicing it since the 80s. There was one time he wasn't available and I simply couldn't get anyone to come and look at it, so I was without heating and hot water and as I recall there was deep snow outside! Not fun. Our service engineer who has been coming here all these decades ought to have retired at least a decade ago, and at some point I'm sure he will. At that point we're going to have to service it ourselves, which seems to be a question of switching it off, taking off the hotplates, getting into the inside parts, vacuuming out all the soot, and maybe replacing a couple of little bits. It looks a bit fiddly but not actually difficult.
Anyway good luck with your purchase, hopefully someone will read this who's bought a Heritage x

 

[k99mn]

Hi just seen your post, and we had the same issue wanting a range, sadly we just couldn't afford it, so instead settled for a rangemaster with induction hob.After ordering this we came across the 'everhot range' looks amazing does everything the aga does but according to the blurb for a fraction of the price, if i remember correctly it also sports two electric hotplates so that the whole unit wouldnt need to be used during the summer months, we saw this a big local store in Holt,Norfolk. I was very impressed

 

[Minkeycat]

Thank you for the recommendation. Am I right in thinking Everhot only do cookers? We need something that does the hot water and central heating too so that might be why we haven't looked at them too much. They do look lovely though and the idea of just plugging it in and away you go is very tempting.

We inherited an old white oil boiler when we moved in that's sat in the big old fireplace in the kitchen. It's rated D for efficiency as well and we don't know how much more life it's got left in it. A range cooker is a massive purchase for us and, financially, we would be much better off with an A rated cooker and a very efficient boiler but relocating the boiler adds a lot to the cost so a new boiler + relocation + decent cooker isn't far off the price of a range cooker which, according to the heating engineer, will replace it in situ without too much additional cost and will give us cooking, heating and hot water. It's slightly faulty logic on our part but one of us desperately wants a range cooker so it's a good chance to get one now.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

MinkeyCAT--i AM appallad at the yarn you were spun and the hard sell regarding purchasing a range cooker- be it an Aga or Rayburn. Disgraceful and I think you should post those comments on the I love my Aga site on FB. With regard to cost, maybe you would like to consider a reconditioned Aga/ or Rayburn. Classy Cookers are an excellent company with a sound track record. You will also find out from the FB paGE a number of independent engineers-they are those who lost their jobs in the Aga take over.and have set themselves up -- doing repairs and installations. It is absolutely awful that Aga are no longer a British company and seem to be failing to help customers choose a cooker to suit their requirements.

Bakers and Larners of Holt in Norfolk are stockists for Everhot--my son has one and is very pleased with it, so well worth spending some time researching that.

 

[LadyArowana]

An interesting piece from the Weekend FT https://www.ft.com/content/4b4bb3a2-fe81-11e6-8d8e-a5e3738f9ae4

 

[Flyfisher]

Interesting, perhaps, if you're a subscriber to the FT :wink:

 

[Owain]

Available from Google Web Cache.

Google

 

[Minkeycat]

Thank you for the links to Everhot. I've had a read and, I admit I might be wrong, but they are a good (better!) option than an Aga.

My research so far has led me to Heritage. Our needs may differ but my reasons are as follows...(I say this because I don't know if it'll help someone else one day...)

We need something that will do heating, hot water and cooking. This is because it's swapping out the old boiler that's sat in the fireplace in our kitchen. We thought about a cooker only and a separate boiler elsewhere but that meant relocating the boiler and drilling through very thick walls to run the pipes which made that option more expensive.

An Aga only does cooking and is an Aga which, these days, isn't the company it used to be since being bought by a US concern according to a very active online Aga group.

A Rayburn will do cooking AND hot water AND heating but falls under the same umbrella as Aga. What's more, from the data I can ascertain from Rayburn themselves, an 80,000BTU Rayburn will consume 2.53 litres of oil in 5 hours of cooking only.

A reconditioned Rayburn makes a lot of sense because they're about 1/3 to 1/2 price to buy. If we didn't intend staying in our house for a long time, that initial cost would more than compensate for the oil usage and some of the independents who provide them supply them with a 5 year warranty that outstrips a new one by years! Unfortunately, according to the online Aga forum I've been reading, there's a chance that some parts for some Rayburn models could be discontinued down the line and that's a worry.

Esse are a fantastic piece of kit. They're British and well designed and come in a good colour range. They're as popular with their customers as old Agas are with theirs. Esse appear to be a wonderful firm to deal with. They use slightly more oil than a Heritage but are a bit cheaper to start with. There's really not much in it. Oil usage over 5 hours of cooking only (from cold) worked out at 1.6Litres of oil.

Heritage are a lovely company to talk to and deal with. All their customers say so. The thing that swung it for us is a few independent comments from installers about what a quality piece of kit they are both electrically and regarding the boiler. "They have a Stephenson's rocket of a boiler (fully tubed) tested independently by Avantica Labs (ex B Gas) at 94% on gas, 92% on oil. And the cleanest combustion known to man due to both combustion chambers being a soft ceramic. Combusts all, lower than Blue Angel limit..." They cost a little more than the Esse as I said but not as much as an Aga/Rayburn. Oil usage over 5 hours of cooking only (from cold) worked out at 0.7 Litres of oil but, from what I can ascertain, the cooking was carried out at a lower temperature than the Esse which is why I think the two figures are possibly closer matched. The other clincher for us is that we're in Devon and Heritage are built not far away in Cornwall.

So that's my research. It might be flawed because I'm not the brightest and I might have missed something really obvious. If it helps someone trawling the web and showrooms like we've been doing, then I'm pleased with that.

 

[LadyArowana]

Interesting, perhaps, if you're a subscriber to the FT :wink:

Strange that the link won't work. I read the article in the print edition and went looking for it online and it was available without restriction ( I've never bothered to sign in to the digital service! ) Oh well, sorry

 

[worms]

Interesting research you've done. I've had both an Esse and a Rayburn and while I really liked the Esse, I think the Rayburn is the better machine in terms of total heat output and hot-plate temperature. A lot depends, of course on the specific model and your heating/cooking needs. Both have been ok for DIY maintenance but the Esse was a simpler design.

While Aga/Rayburn will always claim that it needs to be serviced by their own engineer, that is just nonsense. Indeed, the real breakthrough for me was when I realised that the Rayburn is simply a bunch of random components that all happen to be in a Rayburn box!

 

[Flyfisher]

Interesting, perhaps, if you're a subscriber to the FT :wink:

Strange that the link won't work. I read the article in the print edition and went looking for it online and it was available without restriction ( I've never bothered to sign in to the digital service! ) Oh well, sorry

No problem. I've had similar issues with links to New Scientist articles. I can understand why various publications are implementing 'paywalls' these days but given the 'everything is free' ethos on the web it'll be interesting to see how long they will last.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Thank you Minkeycat for sharing your deliberations. I am glad that you found the Aga 'chat' pages as it certainly contains some very heartfelt comments! I have noted your comments about Heritage for the future--and that is after being an Aga owner most of my life!! Good luck with what ever you decide to do!

 

[Feltwell]

Just down the road from me.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-40033328