Help with the timber up keep

[Dean]

Hi
I have just joined this group and need help
I’ve just bought this property and need to re stain or paint this timber. I want to do this properly, so does anyone that can. Advise me on this. I would be very grateful
Dean

 

[TudorCottage]

Some would say try and get whatever is on there and let the wood do it’s own thing and your frame looks in good condition and is probably achievable.

In the case of my timber frame too many substances had been applied over the years and removing them completely in my opinion would have been too harsh on the wood. I gently removed what I could and applied Bedec barn paint in satin black. 18 months later and I’m still very pleased with the results.

Bedec are often recommended for use on historic buildings due to the high level of permeability they provide compared to many other brands of paint.

 

[Cubist]

My personal view is never, ever, ever, under any circumstances paint a timber frame. If someone has already painted it, get rid of it at your first and best opportunity. Stains may be acceptable but many of them carry the colour/pigment as a suspense in an oil or water. The colouring agent may then later wash out or fade over time. Better in my view to simply apply a brush coat of thinned linseed oil - though some would recommend the more expensive tung oil for the job. This will complement and aid the wood but ultimately the timber will fade to a glorious grey - as it should.

Frankly, I think you would be better advised to inspect, and repair where necessary, the joints between the timbers and the infill panels to ensure these are weathertight and also check the condition of the pegs and their fit into the mortices.

 

[malcolm]

Definitely don't paint. Wood survives be when it can breathe and let water evaporate away. Trap water in and it will breathe less well so be more likely to rot away. Looks like a new build - wood likes the mortar against it to be lime not cement so water isn't trapped between the cement and wood.

It's a shame it's been stained. Wood goes a nice consistent grey after a while. Though it doesn't like UV light so maybe there is a case for re-doing the stain. I don't have any to recommend but be very careful - some coatings sold as stains contain varnish which will be waterproof and start cracking and peeling off after a few years which creates a maintenance hassle.

A true waterbased stain rather than a varnish stain would be fine but not durable. A natural oil based (eg lindeed) stain would probably be OK but I don't have the experience to confirm if that would be the case. Maybe somebody else will.

What is the wood? If it's oak it will best look after itself without any sort of coating.

 

[Toby Newell]

Hi
I have just joined this group and need help
I’ve just bought this property and need to re stain or paint this timber. I want to do this properly, so does anyone that can. Advise me on this. I would be very grateful
Dean

View attachment 11362

View attachment 11363

Looks lovely.

(Well, the wood and bricks, not the pebble dash.)

Wood does not necessarily survive on it's own, it famously rots. The speed of which is proportional to a number of variables, which include:

Geographical area related weather patterns, sun / rain volume.

Topological issues, is timber in lee or exposed.

Orientation issues, is timber South, West or South West facing. (rain, wind, UV damage)

Is structure near to local industry, a busy town or road? (acidic precipitate)

Damp issues in surrounding masonry.

Shedding of water from roof onto timber.

Looks like your timber is pretty sound, some large shakes (cracks) and earlywood ring surface slightly weathered.

Should last for years with no protection although an anti fungal (penetrative, transparent) preservative treatment would be advisable.

Some paints are good, others less so. It depends on how exposed elevation is.

Paint (or stain) especially good for South facing as protect from UV sun damage. For other elevations may not be as usefull.

I never advise painting timber structures. Much better to use a professional type "stain". These are effectively highly engineered paints sometimes come in a matched system with two parts. These are often microporous (breathable) and contain anti microbial (antifungal) components.

Sikkens is one of the best. These are what is used in industry on £BIllions of buildings pa.

Linseed oil is a horrible almost useless substance historically a byproduct of the linen industry, it rots and gives little protection. Tung oil is far better and what I use for exterior wood like gates and benches for a natural finish (after a coat of transparent wood preservative)

The issue is, drying oils are effectively weak varnishes and I apply around 10 coats, so this is time consuming if up scaffold.

Also it has zero UV protection.

My advice is thusly:

1. Leave alone, it doesn't look that bad (as in damaged)

2. Clean gently with a bronze liming brush (Liberon) and apply one coat transparent woid preservative then the Sikkens system of your choice, for North facing transparent or no coating, for South and West elevations a pigmented coating (you may want to do all to match.

If it were my property I would probably do option 2, even though aesthetically leaving it natural imho, would look the best.

It should be noted, if the timber is in lee, guttering is good and there are no damp issues then very often it is sun / UV damage that greatly expedites degredation rather than exposure to moisture. The only caveat being vicinity to busy roads whereby acid precipitate can greatly accelerate damage.

FYI I am a wood restorer with 30k + hrs experience.

 

[88v8]

Hi
I have just joined this group and need help
I’ve just bought this property and need to re stain or paint this timber. I want to do this properly, so does anyone that can. Advise me on this. I would be very grateful

Hello and welcome.

Mmm... softwood ?
Is that a structural frame or an applique?

In our previous house I used to creosote our decorative softwood... 30 years... and it was already 60 years old... but that was when one could get proper creosote from the hardware store and didn't have to buy it in 5 gallons online.



Toby is the guru round here, but if you want to do ... something... I use a 50/50 of boiled linseed and turps for external wood. The turps helps it penetrate. Prevents wood from getting too soggy.
In view of Toby's observations I shall upgrade from linseed to Tung oil.

Real turpentine, btw, you can get in gallons on't internet. I don't use Turps Substitute.

Ivor

 

[Stevers]

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that the architect, builder and original owners would have expected that framing to be stained dark brown. For my external unpainted woodwork - mainly the planked, ledged and braced side gate - I use 50/50 dark brown Creocote and dark brown oil based 'Cuprinol' - although the latest lot is actually Barrettine. That treatment every few years has kept that recycled door in good shape, and it smells great when freshly done.

 

[Toby Newell]

Creosote is a very crude but effective wood 'stain' and preservative. Semi banned (a la DCM solvent stripper) but available online.

EH normally stipulates external timber to be stained black because since the industrial revolution we had millions of gallons of creosote like coal tar, variously called asphaltum or incorrectly bituminous stain (bitumen is naturally occuring) residue left from the coking process.

These black-brown oleo resinous products are actually mixtures, like petroleum, of hundreds of different compounds.

Some wax like (paraffin and all C9 and above alkanes, including white spirits are technically - but not semantically) waxes, just the lighter ones liquid and very thin at room temperature) give some waterproofing. Some of the cyclic and polycyclic aromatic compounds, like the phenols, have strong anti microbial properties (analine (phenol) dyes were used - and still used today - as the first topical antibacterial swabs in surgery) think of Vosene shampoo if you are old enough)

Modern professional systems like from Sikkens are actually very similar, but more breathable (less waxes) and do not contain some of the mutagenic and carcinogenically active compounds. I actually like the smell, but it's really better for things like fence posts that are exposed to constant damp due to its less breathable nature.

I find it curious it is semi-restricted. Normal tar maccadam (asphalt concrete) contains up to 5% of the dangerous compounds found in creosote. Vapourising it and depositing several tons of it next to your granddaughters nursey is deemed seemingly fine, yet the EU has banned putting a hundred year weathered railway sleeper at the bottom of your garden incase it contains a few grams of the stuff. Interesting.

As regards linseed oil, it is rubbish, tung oil is multiple times better and only costs around twice as much (or less) I always buy gum turpentine because I love the smell, but there is no real benefit over white spirits. (since white spirits have been dearomatised technically natural turpentine is worse for your health)

In your case Dean your timber IS weathering, I would brush with a bronze brush and hand sand with a block, with the grain, with a P60 or P80 grit paper. This will reduce the porosity and the 'tramlining' of the preferentially weathered softer earlywood (thicker 'stripes') then I would coat as suggested, creosote or a more modern slightly more breathable finish would be good.

Timber, stone, mountains, weathering is exponentially proportional to the granularity of the surface topology. ie, the rougher it is, the larger the erosive surface ergo the quicker the erosion. Erosion (=weathering in this case) decreases dramatically the smoother the substrate, so sanding is a good idea (and why any blasting is a bad idea unless followed by subsequent sanding as blasting always increases the surface area)

This is why I tell my customers my work (both indoor and outdoor) is amazingly smooth not for aesthetics, but for durability, aesthetics being a happy benefit.

 

[Toby Newell]

Hello and welcome.

Mmm... softwood ?
Is that a structural frame or an applique?

In our previous house I used to creosote our decorative softwood... 30 years... and it was already 60 years old... but that was when one could get proper creosote from the hardware store and didn't have to buy it in 5 gallons online.



Toby is the guru round here, but if you want to do ... something... I use a 50/50 of boiled linseed and turps for external wood. The turps helps it penetrate. Prevents wood from getting too soggy.
In view of Toby's observations I shall upgrade from linseed to Tung oil.

Real turpentine, btw, you can get in gallons on't internet. I don't use Turps Substitute.

Ivor

wonderful shrubbery...

 

[matthewjohnlowe]

Hi, I'm new here and hope it's OK to add my query to the thread. I've found the above comments really helpful for my situation. I've bought a period property that needs a lot of renovation. It is c.17th century, timber frame but only exposed in a few areas. Main area I'm concerned about is the East facing gable wall. Surveyor advised treating with 'linseed oil or similar'. Based on the above I'm more inclined to use a Solvent based stain. I think something like the below is correct but conscious it's easy to do damage applying the wrong product.

Sikkens Cetol HLS Plus | Sikkens HLS Plus Exterior Woodstain

Buy Sikkens Cetol HLS Plus. A high quality, exterior low build base coat and wood stain. Resists UV light, mould, algae, peeling and cracking.

www.wood-finishes-direct.com

Any other advice would be much appreciated. Pic extract from survey.

 

[Toby Newell]

Sikkens is excellent and much higher performing than linseed that is very hard to apply, prone to mildew, not very durable or waterproof. Put simply it was a very cheap, readily available period material, for some reason it seems to have a lot of love. If I oil outside I use tung oil. Consider using a silicone cream this is very good, with one important caveat, once you have applied it you will never be able to apply another finish as it destroys adhesion.

Out of the hundreds of gallons of finish I have used in my career I have only ever used a few drops of linseed dabbed on my rubber, or flicked from my fingernails, like my Grandfather, when bodying up. Even that is very romantic, polishers that regularly do full grain finishes now use white mineral oil as it performs better. It is hard to think of a worse finish than linseed.

And, fyi, the old tutors (probably passed by now as they were well into their 60's 29 years ago) at The London College of Furniture, interestingly enough especially the modern finishes tutor, always said that an oil finish is the king of finishes. At one time time that would of been linseed, but we used tung oil and I still do, myself, on all the furniture I make and own myself.

 

[Toby Newell]

Hi, I'm new here and hope it's OK to add my query to the thread. I've found the above comments really helpful for my situation. I've bought a period property that needs a lot of renovation. It is c.17th century, timber frame but only exposed in a few areas. Main area I'm concerned about is the East facing gable wall. Surveyor advised treating with 'linseed oil or similar'. Based on the above I'm more inclined to use a Solvent based stain. I think something like the below is correct but conscious it's easy to do damage applying the wrong product.

Sikkens Cetol HLS Plus | Sikkens HLS Plus Exterior Woodstain

Buy Sikkens Cetol HLS Plus. A high quality, exterior low build base coat and wood stain. Resists UV light, mould, algae, peeling and cracking.

www.wood-finishes-direct.com

Any other advice would be much appreciated. Pic extract from survey.

View attachment 12247

Looks lovely btw.

Fyi I have studied wood finishes for over 30yrs and was head hunted by Sherwin Williams to be their top technical manager in the UK, I use tons of traditional finishes, shellacs and waxes, on my van I currently have 6 different waxes, 5 types of shellac and three oil mixes, and no linseed. I would use Sikkens on my property.

 

[Toby Newell]

Also fyi...

Looks like the beautiful gable end is quite perished, clear off the last vestiges of old stain with a tungsten carbide scraper and a wire brush, depending on how friable a bronze liming brush can be more gentle, but these wear out faster. For stubborn areas use DCM stripper (I use Paramose) and wire clean and wash. A pre sand with P80 can be helpful. Intercoat sanding can be done with P240 or with P150 if you are careful, it's easy to burn through on uneven timber. I would use the Sikkens two stage system as instructed.

 

[matthewjohnlowe]

Also fyi...

Looks like the beautiful gable end is quite perished, clear off the last vestiges of old stain with a tungsten carbide scraper and a wire brush, depending on how friable a bronze liming brush can be more gentle, but these wear out faster. For stubborn areas use DCM stripper (I use Paramose) and wire clean and wash. A pre sand with P80 can be helpful. Intercoat sanding can be done with P240 or with P150 if you are careful, it's easy to burn through on uneven timber. I would use the Sikkens two stage system as instructed.

Thank you so much for your helpful and quick responses, it's hard to find reliable advice on renovation generally, esp period property related.

 

[Toby Newell]

Thank you so much for your helpful and quick responses, it's hard to find reliable advice on renovation generally, esp period property related.

Tell me about it! I have tens of thousands of hours of research under my belt and I find it very difficult to research new things these days.

 

[Toby Newell]

Lovejoy is accurate! The renovation and restoration industry is 80% sharks, 15% ignorance and 5% of people who know what they are doing. And I think I am being generous.