Help with recently refurbished building (breathable paint)

[Stuart_tate41]

Hi all,

Me and my wife a going through the motions of purchasing a recently refurbished 18th century coach house. The survey has picked up on the wrong paint being used on the outside of the building.

The inside has a membrane followed by insulation then plasterboard. My surveyor has pointed out this is not great but would be acceptable if the outside could breath correctly.

The developer has used Dulux Weathersheild which he states is breathable and doesn't seem to want to change it.

What are you views on weathersheild? Is it as bad as my surveyor thinks?

The out side has already started yellowing in places and is soaking wet to the touch with water beading on the outside face of the wall.

Any help you would be appreciated!

 

[Zebra]

Hmmm. No, I don't believe Dulux Weathershield could be called breathable.

 

[Stuart_tate41]

Here are a few pictures of one of the areas that concerns me, bare in mind this property was painted at the beginning of summer the yellowing shouldn't happen should it?


[url=https://flic.kr/p/NDPywa]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/NBiFgW]

 

[Flyfisher]

The definition of 'breathable' is something of a problem. According to Dulux, their weathershield paint is breathable and they use the term 'micro-porous' in that respect. However, as Zebra rightly says, I don't think there are many period property people who would regard it as such, so it's a matter of degree and I've never seen any actual figures that would help give a more useful definition.

Some interesting reading here, which puts some actual numbers into the mix: http://cornishlime.co.uk/information/breathable-paints-explained/

This thread from about five years ago is probably as relevant today as it was back then: http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12327

Perhaps 88v8 could give us an update about what actually happened?

 

[bennoa1]

Similar but worse:

A fair bit of cement, plenty of cement faced bricks and the modern paint trapping moisture with many of the bricks crumbling to dust. Managed to turn a few around and replaced about 50. Bathroom the other side and this was the worst wall - only single skin on the first floor too!!
Bigger view:

To this (not quite finished):

Then pointed in lime and painted with Earthborn EcoPro.
You'll need patience an time to remove the paint and any cement if you want the wall to last. You can see the damp staining already so get it off and then at least it should be able to breath. We tried a jet wash at the back of the house which got some off but be careful with the lime pointing (if there is any). Otherwise a good chisel ( I have a few Harbro chisels now) and a few hours a day and you'll see the difference.

 

[noj]

You could argue that the yellowing shows that it is breathing to some extent - completely watertight and it'd still be pure white?

 

[a twig]

You could argue that the yellowing shows that it is breathing to some extent - completely watertight and it'd still be pure white?

You could - especially if you state that the breathing is carried out by the bubbling action of the paint the paint's bubbling and popping being the intended method of vapour release? :lol:

 

[Flyfisher]

You'll need patience an time to remove the paint and any cement if you want the wall to last. You can see the damp staining already so get it off and then at least it should be able to breath. We tried a jet wash at the back of the house which got some off but be careful with the lime pointing (if there is any). Otherwise a good chisel ( I have a few Harbro chisels now) and a few hours a day and you'll see the difference.

I've been doing something very similar this year, removing layers of various modern concoctions from plasticky paints to cementitious paints (anyone remember 'Snowcem'?'). Fortunately, it came off fairly easily with careful use of a scutch hammer, perhaps because the wall is mostly chalk block. I don't think there are any easy-and-quick-and non-damaging methods so it's just a case of taking your time, but it's immensely satisfying to finally get rid of all the modern stuff and then be able to start afresh with something more appropriate.

 

[noj]

More gasping than breathing!

Just not breathable enough.

 

[a twig]

Fortunately, it came off fairly easily with careful use of a scutch hammer, perhaps because the wall is mostly chalk block.

Would you mind elaborating on your technique with the scutch hammer? I can see how scutch chiselling it off might work, but at a loss with the old hammer...

 

[plasticpigeon]

Someone on here mentioned how dry ice blasting vapourises the paint but doesn't damage what is underneath. It left the poster's wooden beams free of paint but with absolutely no loss of detail. I would look into that if I was trying st strip anything fragile in the future. It is a shame that people take the easy option and just cover everything with something innapropriate. Was it a developer of previous owner who painted it?

 

[frogman]

I have the pleasure of dulux weathershield over new lime render care of the previous (developer) owner. He removed the previous concrete render and replaced with lime before opting for the dulux. I suspect he had no clue on historic buildings and saw the CO as an annoyance forcing him to use lime.

However, I have 4 years in had no issue with damp in that respect. I have even limewashed over it with good results, partly for a more authentic look and partly as we needed to repaint anyway and did not want to build up layers of modern paints.

 

[Flyfisher]

Fortunately, it came off fairly easily with careful use of a scutch hammer, perhaps because the wall is mostly chalk block.

Would you mind elaborating on your technique with the scutch hammer? I can see how scutch chiselling it off might work, but at a loss with the old hammer...

Not much to elaborate really. A scutch hammer uses the same scutch 'bits' as a scutch chisel so the process is more or less the same. I found that hitting/tapping almost perpendicular to the wall was best and caused the various layers of paint to flake off fairly easily. To be fair, the paint wasn't solidly stuck to the underlying chalk block and came away fairly easily - possibly because of the chalk, possibly because it was already in poor condition before I left it another eight years to get around to removing it! I can imagine it wouldn't have been as easy to remove new-ish paint from brickwork.

This is the sort of scutch hammer I used: http://www.protecdirect.co.uk/Site-Equipment-and-Consumables/Site-Equipment-and-Tools/Hand-Tools/Double-End-Scutch-Hammer~p~675139000

 

[88v8]

This thread from about five years ago is probably as relevant today as it was back then: http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12327
Perhaps 88v8 could give us an update about what actually happened?

Nothing happened!
The paint is still there. It hasn't bubbled, and as I've done no external repainting, I've left it alone.

Inside the house though, where the same paint was apparently used, it has blown off low down on the wall where it's damp.

If the OP's building has no dpc, as one would assume, the paint will blow. Hard to do anything about it now. The Weathershield would have to be blasted off before limewashing. No good painting over it.
http://www.blast-cleaning.co.uk/index.php?menuid=50&component=content&task=article&articleid=39&categoryid=9
Hard to imagine a developer being willing to do that.

Mind you, whiter-than-white paint isn't at all 'period'. White back then would have been what we term off-white.

Ivor

 

[Stuart_tate41]

Thanks for the feedback.

The owner has converted it from an old skittle alley attached to a pub. So has painted it with the weather should as park of its renovation.

I'm tempted to walk away from it, how much work is involved in stripping the paint off? Could you use something like nitromors?

 

[livias]

Of course I am only looking at your pictures but I would be tempted to walk away too

Skittle alley (ex shed/coach house) will likely not have been well built on day one
Two stones plus gravel outside the doors is about the cheapest the developer could get away with. A proper patio area would be more desirable
Waney edge fencing is the cheapest option
And that is before considering the masonry paint wall
And any other issues which have been covered up for quick sale

 

[malcolm]

For removing paint from brick you would be looking at a hot water jet washer and paint stripper. See http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14124#p206882 I think I paid £5000 to have 3 walls of my house stripped. The wall will need re-pointing afterwards, scaffolding will be an additional cost, and putting right the cement ridden repairs and alterations made on the cheap by a pub and hidden by paint adds a lot.

I bought an old pub. I have stripped the walls back to brick and am still tidying them. Internally I plan a breathable insulation system. The modern building techniques used here in the past haven't worked - waterproofing has caused damp.

 

[TheRoost]

It looks just like my back wall. Looking at the close up pic, it looks like a poor lumpy finish and there is probably multiple layers of old paint under there(unless you know it was bare brick until recently). The yellowing may be an area where the old paint had come off, therefore moisture in the bricks has moved into the new paint.

On my wall it's peeling /falling off now in certain areas, all several layers of old paint in one piece. I'm planning to remove mine next year with a poultice type stripper like klingstrip, lots of information on here about the different types, and tester packs etc.

I would definately budget for having it removed and repointed, and reduce your offer accordingly.