Help! Restoring a Curved Georgian Garden wall...

[pipdl]

Does anyone have any ideas??
We have a beautiful curved Georgian wall and it has fallen down in the middle. We have the bricks and the area is about 10 metres. It is going to be hugely expensive to restore apparently. Does anyone know of grants for this sort of thing or maybe apprentices who would do this work for a little less - perhaps it is a rare chance to work on this sort of wall. It was built approx 1820 and is very long and continually curved to the side of the drive. Thanks very much for your help!

 

[Me!]

Where abouts are you in the country please?
We have quite a few around here -

 

[Penners]

Is that the one in Great Yeldham, Me!?

 

[MdB]

Pics as always would be useful as well as what you mean by hugely expensive. Have you been told why it would cost?

 

[Me!]

Is that the one in Great Yeldham, Me!?

No, it's the one in Walpole Road in Bramfield. Just a mile or so south of Halesworth -


I don't know Great Yeldham, I just had to look it up on a map to find it! I've driven the Radwinter to Long Melford road many times over the years, but never turned off in that direction. Is it worth a visit?

 

[Pford75]

We have a beautiful curved Georgian wall and it has fallen down in the middle

When you say "fallen down", can you be a bit more specific about the cause as this will have a bearing on the options?

If the wall has literally just fallen down through lack of maintenance, then it will be very difficult to get any assistance with reconstruction. If on the other hand, it has fallen down due to tree damage, flood etc. you might be able to make a claim on your buildings insurance. I speak from experience of making 2 claims totalling more than £150k for reconstruction of a separately listed curved wall. Mind you, the insurers don't always appreciate how expensive these are to rebuild (esp. in traditional materials/techniques) and you may also find that you are underinsured (people forget about the cost of boundaries like this when getting cover for their house.

Grants are likely to be few and far between. One option might be to find a jobbing bricklayer and offer to get him trained in traditional techniques (working with lime etc.) in return for a reasonable quote and a glowing reference when the job is completed to your satisfaction. Worth noting that you might be running out of time to do lime work this year.

 

[Moo]

That second wall looks just like the one we used to pass in Eye on our way to the dentist.
Ah, happy memories.

 

[Penners]

I don't know Great Yeldham... Is it worth a visit?

No, not really. There's a very old oak tree in the centre of the village which - like most such trees - has all kinds of apocryphal stories attached to it. And it's got this crinkle crankle wall. But that's about the extent of its attractions.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I think from the original post that the wall under advisement is simply one sweeping curve alongside a driveway.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

I was told that the crinkle crankle wall was built to muffle the sound of horse and carriage rumbling by.

But, hey! what a beautiful wall that is, Mel.

 

[Flyfisher]

I was told that the crinkle crankle wall was built to muffle the sound of horse and carriage rumbling by.

That's interesting. I had just assumed they were built that way for stability reasons.

Is there a definitive reason? Surely it can't just be aesthetic.

 

[MdB]

Random googling:

This layout not only gives the construction added strength but also does away with the need for buttressing.

In some areas this type of wall was used to grow fruit on as the wall would trap the rays of the sun, which would assist the fruit in growing.

crinkle-crankle wall

A wall with serpentine curves for growing fruit, dating in Britain from the mid-18th century. Its curving lines gave added strength, thus avoiding the need for buttressing.

A crinkle-crankle wall is also known called a serpentine wall. It is built only one brick thick thus saving materials but because of its shape it is very strong and durable and provides shelter for delicate plants.

 

[stuart45]

Any 9 inch brick wall is a good sound barrier. The serpentine wall is much more stable at that length.

 

[Me!]

I think from the original post that the wall under advisement is simply one sweeping curve alongside a driveway.

Yes, I agree, but I don't really understand why a curved wall has to be so expensive for pipdl when curves are far from unique. Personally, I've built a few curved walls myself over the years without any problem. The trouble is that I was trying to build them straight :roll:

 

[jocelyn plummer]

That is what I was told by a local North Norfolk builder when he was working in our first house up there.! Who cares anyway, I admire its beauty for what it is!

 

[Pford75]

Yes, I agree, but I don't really understand why a curved wall has to be so expensive for pipdl when curves are far from unique

The problem with constructing any new wall is that different requirements from building control. Many old walls around gardens were built without foundations and to heights that would not be allowed now. This is especially true if an insurance company is funding the reconstruction - they are likely to insist that the wall meets modern day requirements regarding stability etc (although worth noting that they will refuse to pay for new foundations if the previous wall had none!)

However, the major reason that walls cost so much is one of scarcity of labour. If it's a small job, then it might be easier...but anything of substantial size/length could require a small team of skilled bricklayers who are used to working with lime. Depending on which part of the country you are from, these people can be scarce and often have a long waiting list......to get them to do your work can result in dramatically higher prices.

For example, our wall went to tender from a firm of professional structural engineers in Norwich - we selected the lowest quote (which was almost £48k lower than the highest) and our insurers still maintained it was too high. (They have some 'guidelines' as to what a section of flint wall should cost per m2). We ended up saying to the insurers that if they could find someone cheaper, we would be happy with that......they spent another 6-8 weeks before realising that there wasn't anyone else who could do the work to the required spec'n in the timeline required.

Still - think the best chance of reducing the cost of the rebuild of the OPs wall is through a claim on buildings insurance

 

[pipdl]

This is pipdl - I am so sorry not to have been replying - I am a novice, couldn't work out how to get back in and then forgot ! But now I have found all these great replies - THANK YOU!
Here is a picture /Users/pippaberry/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2011/7 Sep 2011_2/IMG_1205.JPG/Users/pippaberry/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2011/7%20Sep%202011_2/IMG_1205.JPG
so I hope this makes it clearer. It is a gentle sweep rather than a curve! It seems a real problem and a huge amount of money. A brilliant idea to maybe train somebody and then give a testimonial. Thanks everyone. pip

 

[MdB]

Hi Pipdl, a bit more work needed for the picture to show up here. You can't link direct from your computer unfortunately...

If you post another message, you will find a "Upload attachment" tab below the edit window. You can use that to upload the image to this site and then get it to appear. 600 x 800 is about the right sort of size.