Hello again! Ceiling troubles!

[Cassie]

Good evening wise comrades-in-arms. After a few weeks doing filial duties and trying to survive the winter in my paid job in A+E, the house has taken a seat so far back it’s been out of the car. However, I do now have a splendid new lead roof on the porch and over the parapets-a big, expensive step forward! I have a week of leave now and the house is very much back on the top of the agenda And of course I’ve been lurking around catching up on everyone else’s dilemmas!
Over a few restless nights, I’ve been examining my bedroom ceiling, and have given it a bit of a poke. There are the usual few cracks that don’t bother me, but there’s one area corralled on all sides by cracks that moves somewhat (about 1/2 inch) when prodded. I think it needs repair. Obviously I want to do this a) myself b) cheaply and c) without causing more harm than a metre square of lime plaster ceiling would do to my head if it fell on me in the night. Screws? Washers? Glue? I don’t want to have to skim the ceiling if it can be avoided! As always, I’m very grateful for any advice!

 

[malcolm]

If it moves half an inch the plaster is probably not all that well. Probably the plaster has separated from the lath for some reason. A few screws wouldn't be a bad approach if the lath is still well attached. Pepper the area with stainless steel screws (because lime) and a enough should go into lath and might fix it. If you can feel where the joists are they are a really good place for a screw.

Should that fail you can locally repair ceilings but the plaster needs to come off in that area which is more messy.

 

[Cassie]

Thanks Malcolm. Above is the loft, so I can get up there and see where the joists are and maybe measure from a fixed point (light fitting). I guess as you say, this would be the best place for screws. If the errant ceiling part is not conveniently near joists, would reattaching to the laths be sufficient alone? Would squirting a bit of contact adhesive into a pre-drilled hole and then screwing be better?? I read somewhere about using plasterboard washers which intuitively give more surface area to pull up the loose bit, but would stand proud and necessitate skimming. Is there a way of doing it with something like a washer, but countersunk enough to be just filled and sanded? In my odds and sods box, I’ve got some countersunk plasterboard washers, but they’d need to be counter-counter sunk into the plaster to avoid bumps, which with crumbly plaster probably defeats the object, if this makes any sense whatsoever

 

[paulc]

I've had some degree of success saving sections of blown plaster by injecting a watered down grab adhesive. This would probably get frowned upon by the purists, but it has worked for me. If you go that route, get the solvent free stuff.

 

[Cassie]

I've had some degree of success saving sections of blown plaster by injecting a watered down grab adhesive. This would probably get frowned upon by the purists, but it has worked for me. If you go that route, get the solvent free stuff.

Thanks Paul- did you just use glue or screws as well?

 

[noj]

With access from above it's fixable.

Get up there and find out if the issue is that the laths are still fixed to the joists and the plaster nibs have broken or if the nails have failed and the bouncy area is both lath and plaster?

Whilst you're there let Henry (or your equivalent) suck as much loose stuff up as possible.

If it's the former then plaster of Paris or something like Anglia Lime's Thermalime (lightweight with fibres) applied over the laths and onto the existing will stick it all together.

If it's the latter then screws and washers from beneath, probably plus some grab adhesive will be required.

You'll probably need a bit of both...

What's really required is the ability to jack up the ceiling firmly against the joists. A couple of acrow props and a sheet of ply would be ideal. With my low ceiling I was able to use a bit of old floorboard and a few hazel poles I coppiced from the garden!

To countersink washers just enough into the plaster for subsequent filling then a forstner bit is your friend. You can get away with a penny washer, just needs to be big enough to hold a lath or two.

Since my rafters are just bits of tree, not straight or evenly spaced l drilled a few, very small holes from above to mark where they were rather than rely on my ability to measure accurately.

Nothing expensive, and it works.

 

[Cassie]

That’s really helpful noj, thank you, Definitely sounds fixable!

 

[Cubist]

Some belated advice from the First Lady - a sleep mask, equipped with ear defenders, and be elsewhere, typically and up-market spa hotel, when the other half, i.e. yours truly, does the repair.

The ear defenders are to blot out my carping about the state of the ceiling.

 

[Zebra]

Malcolm mentioned stainless steel screws because of the tendency for BZP screws (like you'd find in Wickes etc) to react with the lime and show through. This also goes for the washers. Consider however, that any bits of plastic can be fashioned into washers, due to the non-reactivity of plastic. You could cut up coffee jar lids, those are a favourite of mine, along with the middle bit from a strip of wall plugs... have a dig about in your recycling bin, you'll find some grade-A lime-safe ceiling repair "washers"...

 

[Cassie]

Some belated advice from the First Lady - a sleep mask, equipped with ear defenders, and be elsewhere, typically and up-market spa hotel, when the other half, i.e. yours truly, does the repair.

The ear defenders are to blot out my carping about the state of the ceiling.

That sounds wonderful cubist-can I go to the spa hotel and you pop round and fix it for me?!

 

[Cassie]

Malcolm mentioned stainless steel screws because of the tendency for BZP screws (like you'd find in Wickes etc) to react with the lime and show through. This also goes for the washers. Consider however, that any bits of plastic can be fashioned into washers, due to the non-reactivity of plastic. You could cut up coffee jar lids, those are a favourite of mine, along with the middle bit from a strip of wall plugs... have a dig about in your recycling bin, you'll find some grade-A lime-safe ceiling repair "washers"...

Great idea Zebra! I’m a terrible hoarder-you never know when something will come in handy I’ve almost certainly got some tip top materials (some might say bits of old crap-they lack imagination) lying around

 

[Cubist]

That sounds wonderful cubist-can I go to the spa hotel and you pop round and fix it for me?!

I'm not sharing this reply with the First Lady - she doesn't need any more encouragement(s) to banish me, frequent trips to the sheds keep her mollified, and anyway, you should be careful what you wish for, the cost of my daily tea rations are quite exorbitant; I'm told.

 

[paulc]

Thanks Paul- did you just use glue or screws as well?

The blown patches were on a wall, so didn't use screws. Where I have had patches of loose plaster on the ceilings, poking them invariably resulted on the whole lot ending up on the floor.

 

[Cassie]

I’ve done a few test ones using the forstner drill bit, glue and washers. I think it’s working, but I’ll go up to the dark, unboarded loft in daylight to see how it’s looking. When I was up there earlier, I stupidly didn’t mark the position of a joist-lesson learned-several test holes from below failed to hit a single one! At least the whole thing hasn’t fallen down. Yet.