Having a survey done on our house

[timinder]

We're in the process of selling our house, and I have the buyers' mortgage surveyor coming tomorrow.
First, a bit of background, then my questions:
The cottage was built around 1850, extended a little in the 1980s and then a few years back we had the 1980s kitchen (which was awful!) re-built.
The previous owner had the following done: Concrete floors, cement plaster up to 1m internally, complete cement rendering on the outside, possibly chemical DPC (we found a guarantee certificate, but thankfully no ugly holes in the walls...). And also someone had painted up to about 1' high some black bituminous substance (it has mostly flaked off now though).
This caused us problems in one of the downstairs rooms with paint blistering off above the cement plaster, and externally with some bricks spalling.
Around 18 months ago we had the cement pointing replaced with lime, scraped off the internal modern emulsion and re-painted it with Earthborn clay paint (which is lovely to use).
For some reason best known only to himself, the builder also fitted a synthetic DPC material along the mortar line of the outer course of bricks. I can't see that this will do much, as the inner course is unaffected by this.
Since then we've had no issues with dampness at all, but just for fun I poked my moisture meter (used for checking wood for the fire) into the cement on the wall and it said that it was "damp". I know that it isn't, and it's just the conductive salts in the wall.

What's concerning me slightly is that the surveyor may come round and do the same thing, then recommend that a DPC is needed, which could possibly put off our buyers (a lovely couple, but first-time buyers and quite cautious), or induce the mortgage company to impose that it be done as a condition of lending.
I'll be there while the surveyor does his thing, so if I see him get his meter out, should I dash it from his hand and send him away with a flea in his ear (and a link to this website!) or say nothing? (or possibly something in between, like ask if he's qualified to inspect traditionally constructed buildings?)

My other question is that during the repointing work, we had a a fair few bricks replaced in the gable wall and subsequently a few thin (<1mm) cracks have developed around the ceilings on that side of the house. I'm comfortable with that as it seems entirely reasonable that a bit of settling would occur with the amount of work that was done, but again, should I try to pre-empt the surveyor, or keep schtum? (the cracks are no worse now than they were 12 months ago.)

My third question would be to ask if I'd used too many brackets in my text, but I think I know the answer to that!

 

[PeterI]

As a recent buyer of a period property I got the cheapest possible homebuyers survey done on the premise that any other survey type would nearly always recommend getting a specialist surveyor in.

We have lots of cracks on the interior walls (typically where the stud walls join the building) that the banks surveyor either ignored, didn't see or wasn't bothered by, for piece of mind (and the insurance company) I got a structural survey done after we bought the property result was he thought they were all nothing to worry about (although he has suggested bracing the roof) so I suspect this is something you don't need to worry about.

For our damp report (required as the basement has damp and the banks surveyor spotted this) I got Hutton and Rostron in who took proper core samples as the last thing I wanted was a recommendation for a injected damp proof solution. Your problem will be that it's more than likely the surveyor will get a meter out and use it regardless, probably worth suggesting that it's likely he's measuring the salts[1] particularly if it's the probe type.

Alternatively get someone in who will do a proper core sample gravimetric test and use this to show there isn't really a problem, H&R are expensive so I'd suggest trying to find someone cheaper and it's worth pointing out that mortgage providers may require someone who is a member of the Property Care Association to do the survey / sign off on it.

Damp is a pain for mortgage approvals and we had a terrible time over the retention for the work as Barclays don't do them anymore and want you to get the work done between exchange and completion (bit unlikely on a listed building).

Peter

[1] Does anyone know if the dielectric or microwave meters are any more accurate?

 

[timinder]

Thanks for the reply Peter, useful to have a view from the buyer's perspective.
We're not sure if our buyers are going to commission their own survey yet, still waiting to hear on that one.
Maybe the fact that there IS a DPC of sorts (though I don't think it's actually doing anything...) and it has previously been messed-about with in the mortgage company approved way will satisfy the surveyor.
Having done all my own research, I'm more than happy that there won't be any issues with the repairs, although I wish I'd found this forum at the start of my investigations, rather than at the end!

 

[jocelyn plummer]

The safest bet is to fork out for a proper survey, to be done by an Independent Surveyor who is Conservation Accredited--- they have gone the extra mile and have a better knowledege of old houses. If you look on the forum's products and services you should find a Surveyor for your area who has that Conservation knowledge. The Building Society is only interested in gaining commission from the so called 'Treatment' rogues, and are also being extremely pedantic about their 'tick list'. Some old houses end up with 2 or 3 Damp proof treatments carried out each time the house has changed hands just to satisfy their criteria. Of course, sometimes drastic measures are applicable but NOT as an arbitory means of gaining a Mortgage.

 

[timinder]

Thanks Jocelyn, but the survey is being done on the house that I am selling, not the one I'm about to buy; we're having a full structural done on that one!
I'm sure it will all be fine, I'll report back on what I learn (if anything) after they've been...

 

[jocelyn plummer]

oops sorry put it down to late night PPUK!!!

 

[timinder]

That's OK!
He was actually a very nice chap, and when he did get his meter out, I asked if I could see what he was reading. He said that he was just testing the skirting as there's no point putting it into the walls due to the minerals... I suppose if you ARE going to have to do a meter test, it's a fair indication of problems if the skirting is damp.
When I told him of the works that had been done by us and the PO, he said "I always think that chemical injections are a waste of time." So he's OK by me. You could hardly even make out his horns!

 

[jocelyn plummer]

So he's OK by me. You could hardly even make out his horns!

Gosh, that is amazing!!! Good news though!

 

[timinder]

Well, after a lot of faffing about, the buyers had a full survey done on our house. It was, as with any survey, quite a long report and there were many points raised which could be put under the heading of "not needed at the moment, but could be done". Most of which were highlighted when we bought the house 13 years ago...

Anyway, the buyers were rather perturbed by quite a few of the points and have asked for all sorts of "experts" to come and look.
For example: When we moved in there was a crack in the artex in the bedroom ceiling (no more than 1mm wide) that hasn't got any worse since we've been here - they have asked if we will "repair the ceiling" !!

My big worry today is the "damp and timber specialist" who is, surprise surprise working for a company which can also solve these problems.
Basically, he's been round, poked his ****y meter into the wall and pronounced that the damp has risen up the wall from the floor to ceiling height and "instead of the salt contamination being about 1m up, it's risen up the wall to head height"
At this point I looked at him and asked: "and, your point is?" and he then started saying that all the plaster ought to be taken off and re-done (but not by him, he doesn't do that kind of thing - although I'm sure he knows someone who would...) I asked what would happen if it wasn't done, and he said that sooner or later the decoration would fail and the plaster would start falling off by itself.
Never-mind the fact that it has managed to cling to the wall for about 165 years without throwing itself to the floor.

Oh, I said rendering in my first post, I meant "repointing".

My fear now is that our buyers will decide that the plaster needs to come off and be re-done. I have a feeling that they will either want us to do it before they buy (not happening) or they'll want us to basically pay them to have it done (also not happening)
I would be extremely grateful if anyone had any advice on how to go forward from here. I've just about lost all my cool and am tempted to tell my buyers to bu**er off and send them a brochure for Barrett Homes...

 

[plasticpigeon]

I found a report from the RICS that basically says that chemical injection is a scam and that it is totally unsuitable for old houses. I'll try and find it and send it. You could print it out and let them read it. Also unfortunately their mortgage company might insist on the "repairs" which puts them in a difficult position. However when I bought the house I just paid the retention as extra deposit and got none of the work done and the mortgage company were ok with that. The buyers may not know this could be an option.

 

[timinder]

Thanks for the reply, PP. That report may be handy if you can find it.
The mortgage survey was Ok - no recommendations for any work to be done.
The full survey (at buyer's request, and coincidentally done by the same chap!) ended by saying that it was a reasonable purchase bearing in mind that it's an older property and as such will need ongoing maintenance etc. etc.
The really galling thing is that the bits our buyers have picked up on appear to be the standard disclaimers put in when the report was typed up - the surveyor himself said that there's nothing really wrong...

 

[JoceAndChris]

I heartily sympathise - how maddening! The young and inexperienced need to be educated - that couple really need to do a bit of reading but how you go about prompting them to do that?? Pretty impossible. If you could befriend them somehow and give them a copy of "The Old House Handbook", by Marianne Suhr, (if they are serious) or just a link to the SPAB website and the look beofre you leap section it would help. SPAB even chat over the phone to novices about these sorts of things, for free!

http://www.spab.org.uk/publications/look-before-you-leap/

To try to cheer you we also had recommendations to do all manner of things and over time, thanks to this forum, realised they didn't need doing. I expect some of my questions and complaints to the seller were pretty maddening and I certainly remember him correcting me in no uncertain terms on damp issues and woodworm. However he did always say that he knew right away I was the one for this house, really because our finances and energy levels and age and interest matched its needs. If these buyers are seeming like time wasters it's better to try to emotionally distance yourself.

But they really, really need to know that damp is detected with the eyes and nose, not with a meter. Preferably over a year or so. And the way to fix it is to check for leaks, fix any, pull away non breathing material and replace with lime. You need to be plugging this as much as possible, although I appreciate it's a very delicate relationship.

 

[Flyfisher]

I also sympathise - it can be very frustrating. But those 'problems' don't sound like the sort of thing that would put off any serious buyers so perhaps they're just using it as an excuse for not making an offer? When we sold our previous house we heard all sorts of daft reasons, which all basically boiled down to the fact that the house wasn't right for them - including one particularly the stupid woman who walked in and immediately said "oh, I don't like stairs". How I restrained myself from telling her to, ahem, 'go forth and find a bungalow then' I don't really know. You'll meet a lot of strange people when selling a house.

The daft thing is that they'll probably not offer the asking price anyway and replastering an entire wall is unlikely to cost more than £1000, so it's all trivial stuff if they were really interested.

The people who eventually bought our previous house zoomed around in about 10 minutes and left, saying they'd be in touch. Before the end of the day we had an offer, which we didn't accept. The buyer said he didn't want to 'play games' and asked what we would accept. I suggested a slightly higher price than our lower limit and he immediately said 'done' as long as we took it off the market immediately, which we did. He didn't even bother with a survey and we exchanged contracts within 4 weeks.

My point is that when the right buyer comes along, you'll know. Our house had been on the market for almost a year, with loads of viewers and a previous accepted offer that fell through and wasted three months (bl**dy footballers, but that's another story!), so I don't think he was rushing because the price was too low. In fact, we were beginning to think it was priced too high and had been discussing dropping the price by about £50k just before the eventual buyer came along!

There will be someone out there who really wants your house. Anyone moaning about a bit of cracked plaster is probably not them.

 

[timinder]

Thanks for the moral support and links! Our buyers have already made their offer and we're in the very last throes of the sale, due to exchange contracts this week...

Spoke to my wife last night and, quelle surprise, the "specialist" has recommended an injected DPC and replastering of the wall in question. I spoke to our estate agent who found this guy and when quizzed, they told me that the "survey" was free. It completely went over their heads that he'd essentially come out to try to sell his services, and they said that I could get a second opinion: "we know another company who'll do a free survey.."

Luckily I have a report from an independent surveyor which we commissioned before we carried out the work on that wall, which states what needs to be done, namely repointing in lime, painting with a breathable paint, and generally better ventilation and also that "introduction of a chemical damp proof course should only be considered as a last resort"

I am hopeful that this, along with the excellent doc provided by PlasticPigeon and our assertion that there is no damp "problem" will persuade them that they would be wasting money by having work done.

It's quite difficult typing this as I have got everything firmly crossed at the moment! I'll hopefully have a happier update soon.

 

[timinder]

A small positive update:
I sent the report that PlasticPigeon gave me, and the survey report that we had in 2011 to the buyers and they have thankfully decided that as there's no problem with damp, that there's no "damp problem" and are not having the work done.
I think they are still keen to have the timber treated once they have moved in "just in case" as it's "only" £200. This is clearly unnecessary, but I won't be living in the chemical-laden atmosphere with damaged floorboards (not original) so that's not a battle I feel I need to fight.